Nolan McKenna: Representing Team USA at the Ultra Marathon World Championships

RunDot Podcast: Nolan McKenna Representing Team USA at the Ultra Marathon World Championships

Introduction

Carrie Tollefson: Hey everybody. Welcome to the RunDot podcast. Today we are super excited to have a conversation with an inspiring athlete. With a big race coming up, I'm joined by Nolan McKenna. Nolan just qualified to represent Team USA at the Ultra Marathon World Championships in New Delhi, India. He ran collegiately at North Central University and now coaches athletes with Run. And uses Run. As the foundation of his own training. Nolan, welcome to the show. How you doing?

Nolan McKenna: Happy to be here. Yeah, doing great. How are you?

Carrie Tollefson: Good. We're going to get into all of your racing and training and all of that. But before I have to introduce myself quickly, I am Carrie Tolleson. I'm also a runner, I'm an Olympian, a broadcaster and your guide to the world of RunDot. We treat this show like any good workout. We're going to start with a warmup question, then we're going to settle into our main set conversation and then we're going to wind things down and have Nolan answer an audience question on the cool down. So lots of good stuff today, so let's get after it.

Announcer: This is the RunDot podcast, the running show that brings you world class coaching with every conversation. Let's get started with today's warm up.

Warm Up Question

Carrie Tollefson: All right, Nolan, our warm up question. What is your favorite event T-shirt that you've gotten as a freebie from a race?

Nolan McKenna: Probably the Run Disney event T shirts. Like, it's so fun to have like the characters and like Run Disney is a pretty like kind of small, like close knit group where like, like you're kind of like kind of in the know if you're doing Run Disney races. And it feels like a little bit more special where like some bigger races it's like, well, everyone has that shirt. But some of the like Disney races, like when you see a Disney race shirt you're like, oh, hey, you do run Disney too? Yeah, yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: A lot of different people run Disney too. Like it's not always the elite and really fast up front. It's people that are coming with their family members and it's a pretty cool atmosphere. So. Yeah, I bet.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: I picked out one of mine. I just grabbed it quick. I don't know if you know Brave like Gabe, but Gabe Gruenwald, that is her foundation and she was a professional runner and she passed away of rare cancer. And I'm on the board of Brave like Gabe and I love it because she designed the shirts when she was still with us. And they're cotton T shirts.

Nolan McKenna: Amazing.

Carrie Tollefson: And they always have kind of a different Logo, and they're fine to run in, but they're more, like, cozy and comfy. And when you think of Gabe, you can't help but think of being warm and cozy with her and hoping that we carry on our tradition. So, yeah, that was my favorite race T shirt and still is.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah.

Nolan McKenna: So, yeah, it's kind of like. It's interesting to, like, kind of see the split of, like, race T shirts that, like, you want to run in or race T shirts that you just want to wear casually. And it's like, I'm personally in the camp that, like, I kind of want to use my race T shirts to, like, actually run. And do you, like, train in? But I don't know.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah, yeah, it's good. We're opposite. I like to be, like, in my PJs and I wear a lot of times my running clothes to bed, but I will throw on, like, a comfy T shirt over, you know, like a sports bra that I'm gonna wear the next morning or a tank top or whatever. So, yeah, we have. There's all kinds of uses for those.

Nolan McKenna: Race T shirts, and that's what my wife does. Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Does she?

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. And she'll order in, like, a 2XL because that's, like, what she wears to bed. It's, like, for purple, she'll get the race T shirt. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Carrie Tollefson: Oh, I never thought of that. Like, order a bigger size.

Nolan McKenna: You don't have to get the exact size. You could just get a super big one and it'll be maybe a little comfier.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah, that's brilliant. Okay, I'm gonna do that from now on. Well, anyway, audience members, we want to hear from you too. We're going to ask this question on all of our RunDot social media accounts. We're curious to hear what race T shirt is in your closet and maybe what size do you get? Do you get the right size to run in, or do you get a big night-time T shirt like Nolan's wife?

Announcer: Let's go.

Main Set

Carrie Tollefson: All right, let's head into the main set now. So, Nolan, first things first. We want to talk about your upcoming race where you're going to get to wear the red, white, and blue. You are representing the US at the Ultra marathon World Championship, so you got to be pretty pumped.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. Amazing. I mean, like, it's been my goal, like, basically as long as I could remember, to represent Team USA and, like, ultra running has given me the opportunity to do that. Like, it's a much less, like, kind of sought after spot just because no one really wants to run that far. But my kind of philosophy is like, if no one else wants to do it, I'll do it. Like, I'll be the person to step up and run further than most people want to if it means that I get to represent my country. And yeah, I'm so excited. Like, that's kind of the whole reason I'm doing ultras. That and a lot of other reasons. But like, one of the big reasons is to be able to get that USA jersey, which is amazing. Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah. So 50k, that's what you're going to be running?

Nolan McKenna: Yep, 50k. Which like, really isn't too much different than a marathon. Yeah, it's like really accessible. Like if like so many people train for marathons, like, like it's nothing. But then sometimes people get scared off by like the ultra 31 miles is like you're taking one extra goo and that gets you the extra five miles. Like it's super accessible. You slow down the pace to a little bit more of a party pace than that marathon and just kind of cruise it out and it's. It's been amazing. Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: So talk a little bit about the terrain though. I mean, you're going to go to India and I don't know why I think of India being more like gravel roads and things like that, but not necessarily.

Nolan McKenna: So.

Carrie Tollefson: So tell us what the course is like.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, so my understanding, like, obviously I haven't been there yet, so. But my understanding, it's like. So it's in the capital.

Carrie Tollefson: Maybe not gravel roads.

Nolan McKenna: Big, big, big city. So it's a paved stretch and it's a like looped kind of like out and back course that we run multiple times. So it's like a 5K loop. So, um, there's gonna be like tables, aid stations every. Every 5k that we could get our bottles, get our nutrition and stuff. Um, and then I think we just do that like ten times. Um, so yeah, like mile and a half plus a little bit out, mile and a half back. Um, and just kind of doing loops. Yeah. Yep. Wow.

Carrie Tollefson: That isn't that. I mean, that is a lot of loops. So how many people are in the. In the field?

Nolan McKenna: Um, I actually, I don't know exactly. So I mean, yeah, if I had to guess, probably about 200 to 300. Okay. But I don't know.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah, it'll be interesting. So when you run ultra world championships there, the ultra. If it just says ultra, it's typically on the. The roads. If it's ultra trail, obviously ultra mountain, then it Gets a little more technical, correct?

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, yeah, I think so. I mean, I don't think it's like, super set in stone or anything, but. Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Do you do trail running then as well?

Nolan McKenna: Um, I dabbled in it a little bit like last year. Um, and like, for me right now, it just was so much different from what I had done in the past that there is quite a bit of, like, a learning and training curve that, like, I wasn't necessarily prepared for. Um, so I kind of went back to my strengths and, like, being able to utilize, like, all the history I have in running, I could utilize that a lot more on the roads than I can on the trails.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah, sure, sure. We're going to get into your history in just a little bit. But quick, quick question. A little bit about New Delhi again. So rumor has it the race was pushed back a little bit. It was originally at a different date. Tell us a little bit about what. What happened there.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, so originally it was supposed to be like, December 7th, I think, and then due to air quality, it got pushed back. So, like, like, yeah, the air pollution in that part of the world is, like, very severe. So they deemed it at an unhealthy, unsafe level to, like, host. So then they pushed it back later in the year, which. That really worked out great for me because me and my wife had a baby or my wife had a baby. Now we have a baby on November 29, so that's been amazing. But at the time, I had to, like, pass. Pass up my spot because I'm like, I'm not going to miss the birth of my son to go on this trip. But now that it's been pushed back, like, we're. We're making things work. So. Yeah, yeah, it's.

Carrie Tollefson: How's he doing?

Nolan McKenna: Really good. Yeah, he's doing really good. He's grown. He's like, doing all the things. I mean, so right now he's about two months, so still just kind of a little sack of potatoes, but that's. That's all they need to do. Yeah, yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: And sleeping at all the wrong tides.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, yeah. It's actually pretty good with the sleep, but I mean, relatively.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah, yeah.

Nolan McKenna: I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: This is kind of that time, like, you know, six to eight weeks, I always feel like, is where everyone is like, okay, now I'm. I could feel that I haven't slept very much in the last two months.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, yeah. It's like. It's one thing getting a bad night's sleep, like one or two days.

Carrie Tollefson: Yes.

Nolan McKenna: But it's much different when it's like cumulative, like month and month and month. Like, I look at my Garmin, like sleep scores and I think my average for the past like eight weeks is like 52. Yeah. So, I mean, it's been getting better. I've been hitting a couple of 70s lately, so that's a much, much better spot.

Carrie Tollefson: But yeah, well, you know, enjoy every minute of it, but. Because before you know it, your baby will be 10. And like my youngest is now 10. I have everyone in double digits and I'm like, how in the world it goes so fast?

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Okay, let's talk about qualifying then. Tell me a little bit about the qualification. How do they, how does that work?

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, so you could qualify at any certified course. Okay. So there's like a time window and stuff. So as long as you run a qualifying time in that time window, then you could go. And there's only a certain number of spots. So like you have to be kind of at the higher end of the kind of pecking order or there's a couple of other ways. Like if you've like ran at like a previous world championship and kind of placed high there, or if you've like won the USA championships, then you get like an auto spot and you could be at like a higher level. You could also qualify as like from the marathon. So if you've run under, I think it's 222 in the marathon. Marathon, like you could not even have run 50k before, but if you've run fast enough in the marathon, they'll just kind of use that kind of conversion. Kind of like how you could qualify for the marathon trials with a half marathon if it's fast enough. But.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah, I see, I see. So how did you qualify?

Nolan McKenna: I qualified in a 50K, so I qualified at the Chicago Lakefront 50K, which is an amazing race. If. And it's like growing, but it's super fun. It's like a smaller race. It's normally, there's about 150 people that run it, but that kind of builds for a like close knit kind of community group. But it's along the Chicago lakefront and you run like 5, 5ish miles out, 5ish miles back, and you do that three times. So it's like perfectly flat along the Chicago lakefront Trail. Paved the hallway and it's awesome. Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Oh, good. Okay. Well that's awesome. So when you, when they push the race back, where did they kind of have to start from scratch with new athletes or did they kind of come to the. Because were you originally going to run the race, but then with the arrival of the baby you decide to. To not?

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, so yeah, basically that's kind of what happened. Like, but because it's also in India, there were empty spots. So like my spot that I qualified for was just left open. So like when they got postponed and I said, hey, I want to run again, then like they were able to just kind of give me my spot back where I think like if it was somewhere else, maybe a little closer to the US and kind of more people wanted to go, then maybe that spot would have been taken. But lucky for me, my spot was just sitting there waiting for me. Yeah. Yep, yep.

Carrie Tollefson: I mean it doesn't matter how you get on that team. You got on that team. So tell me a little bit about how you said that, you know, sleep hasn't been great, but life is so fun when you have a brand new baby. So you kind of can like fake your way a little bit. Um, how's the training changed? Has it really, have you had to adapt a bit or are you able to still get in most of your training?

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, I mean I've still been getting in most of my training. Like the great thing about like run is the kind of philosophy of like, like less time, better results. So like, like it's not like I was like when I was in college running 100 miles a week, just putting in hours and hours and hours of like mileage. It's kind of a lot like more fine tuned with things. But yeah, I mean the big one like especially with ultras, I feel like is the long run. If I could nail a long run every single week and everything else is just kind of like easy, um, then I feel like I'm still in a decent spot. Um, but I put a big, big emphasis on long runs.

Carrie Tollefson: Um, but yeah, do you only do one long run a week or do you have like a long one and then a medium?

Nolan McKenna: Um, so like currently I just have one long run. Um, in the past, like I just came off a 50 mile training block. Um, in, in that one I was doing back to back long runs every single week. But the reality of having a newborn at home, like I'm not gonna be gone for two plus hours on both weekend days, like it just seems a little unfair. So yeah, just wanted to like have that good balance. But currently just doing one long run. But yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Oh fine. Okay. We're gonna get more into your training and your coaching in a sec. But I do have one question. Have you gotten your Team USA kit yet?

Nolan McKenna: I have not. So kind of like with kind of with the shift and me being kind of a late addition. I'm still waiting, but hopefully it comes soon. Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah. It is like crazy how much stuff you get. One race, you know, you'll have all these options of what to wear. Like are you gonna wear the speed suit? Are you gonna wear, you know like the shorty shorts? Will you wear the, the you know, whatever three quarter length tights or just your shorts, like all the things and, and then everyone will want a piece of it. So you gotta make sure you don't give too much away until you're ready to.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, for sure.

Carrie Tollefson: You'll probably get a bunch of pins. Have you ever been on a US Team before?

Nolan McKenna: No, I've not. The closest I have been just like a couple months ago I was so I work at a running store and like the company on does like they call it squad race. So I was part of like our team that we qualified in Chicago and then they had like kind of a world championships down in Miami. So a bunch of teams like the winning team from a bunch of cities around the world got to go to Miami and do the squad race. So it's a relay race, there's two guys, two girls and you know you are. We were running in a parking garage. So it's about like a 400 meter like course and stuff and you're sprinting through a parking garage. It's like super hype. The event is amazing. Such high energy. But for that one. So there was like Chicago, there was la, there was Toronto, Montreal and then Mexico City, there was a Brazil team and I know I'm missing someone, but a couple other teams but we had some pin trading and. But that was like the most fun part of the entire experience. So like to get to like talk with other people on the teams and like get to know them, like that was super, super fun. And I'm really looking forward to doing that this time around too.

Carrie Tollefson: Oh, you're going to have a blast. How I wonder how long the flight is. Do you know? Have you looked into that yet?

Nolan McKenna: It's like 19 hours depending on if like we're doing like a layover or anything like that. But yeah, super, super long.

Carrie Tollefson: It is long. I flew to Japan and Russia for a couple world championships when I was racing and it's further than that and that. Yeah, you're, you're gonna, you're gonna feel it, but it goes quick. I mean I, my Latest thing. And I don't know if I should be the one. I don't take much for any kind of like medicine or anything like that, but I do now when I travel overseas. I take one Tylenol PM and then I fall asleep and then I sleep for a good four or six hours and then I'm up. So, you know, if you need something, maybe a melatonin or something. But yeah, you'll be ready for some good sleep, I'm sure. Just because you, y. You haven't had a ton of it.

Nolan McKenna: Lately, that's part of the training I'm gonna be. Yeah, it's. I don't need to adjust to any time zones because I am on no time zone right now. Yeah, I am constantly awake. So, yeah, I'm gonna have great sleep. Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. You'll have to, you know, credit the baby for that, that's for sure. So let's talk a little bit about your coaching and again, your training with RunDot. I mean, you now have been using RunDot personally, but also, you know, you have liked it enough to now be a coach. So how did you find RunDot? How did you start, you know, using the program and the app?

Nolan McKenna: So I actually started on TriDot. So like post college, like, I was doing some marathons and stuff. And long story short, like, I just needed a break from, from just running. So I went over to the triathlon side and just as a coincidence, I bumped into, um, who's my coach, Tony Washington. Um, I bumped into him in the pool and like, we kind of got connected and he helped me like, basically develop as a swimmer and like, that was awesome. So I was using TriDot for about like a year, year and a half, just doing full on triathlon side of things. But eventually I'm like, I want, I have some goals still left and running that I still feel like I need to pursue. Um, so I kind of went away from triathlon a little bit and came back to running because, like, running's always. I'm a runner. I was a runner who was doing triathlon, not a triathlete. But so it came back to running and switched over to RunDot and like, like, yeah, just some pretty big differences in like what my training was like in college and high school and everything to what I'm doing now. Um, but at the end of the day, like, I'm in the camp that believes, like, you put in the work, you put in the consistency, and I think there's a lot of different avenues to get to where you want to go, but try that. Or RunDot is been a great avenue to like, allow me to have a good balance between like training and life and now a baby and a family.

Carrie Tollefson: But yeah, so that I think is important for people to hear, like why you would tell someone to use RunDot. I mean, you obviously could do the training on your own or seek people that could help you write workouts, but you've kind of gotten to this new age and you have a coach on top of it. But talk a little bit about the why someone might be like, no, I don't know if I need something generated for me, I want to have the old school way. Why would you say come on over the AI side of things kind of type?

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, essentially like it's the, the time aspect is a huge, huge thing. Like, what do you mean by that? So like, like how much time you're needing to put into training? So like, for example, like in college, I was running 100 miles a week. I was doing core, I was doing strides, I was doing like all the things. And all in all, I was probably putting in like 15 hours a week of training. Like now training. And that was training for like a 5k or an 8k. And now like training for a 50k much, much longer. You might think, oh, I need to put in 20, 25 hours a week of training. But that's not really not the case. Um, when I kind of peek out at some of my big, big weeks, I'm at like eight to ten hours a week. So. Which is much, much more manageable than trying to just hammer the time and hammer the mileage. And just like the timing and simplicity of things is like really nice. So run. That does the kind of philosophy like fast before far. So in previously like most training philosophies give you this like big, big block of like base training and then you kind of do some speed and then you sharpen down and kind of fine tune things for race day run. Almost kind of flips that in reverse. So you work on your form and efficiency first and then only when it comes to like the weeks leading up into that race and that kind of preparation phase, that's when you build the endurance. Like the idea that like the actual physical endurance to get you to like be able to run the distance efficiently. Like, that comes pretty quickly. Like people like go from a couch to Marathon in 18 weeks and you could do that. Like building the endurance comes really quickly. What doesn't come quickly is you're changing your form, changing Your efficiency and building that efficiency in your stride to be able to run the paces that you want to run. So like a big portion of the training is focused on exactly that, like building that efficiency before you even start to think about like building the endurance to like train for the race. So like that's a big thing where like you don't have to like pound out a ton of miles, but you could work out like the efficiency and form and build your like VO2 max and lactate thresholds and build all that stuff without having to do like too much volume, which is really nice. Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: And you're running the 50k which is, you know. Yeah, you said it's not much further than the marathon. But how does that work with RunDot? Do you have to add like, you know, tell us a little bit more how you get in your mileage. And I know that you said you had a 50 mile week, but is that your biggest week that you have with RunDot getting ready for. You know, we hear of athletes now that run 150 miles a week at the top level or at this level that you're at. So.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: How do you do that off of 50 miles a week for 50k?

Nolan McKenna: Well, so like, like when I said I am coming off a 50 mile training block, I. That was a 50 mile race that I was training for. So currently my mileage is probably about like 60 miles a week. Um, and in that training block I did a 50 miler. Um, and that race went really, really well. So it actually feels like I'm coming down in distance funny enough. Like I'm coming back to like mid distance with the, the 50K. But yeah, like having that experience. So like a big part of my last training block was back to back long runs and I would try and like add up like the mileage in both long runs and train. I think I peaked out at like 56 miles in a weekend. So not in a week.

Carrie Tollefson: In a weekend.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, yeah, so, and I peaked out that week. I was like 105 miles for the week. But it's, it's pretty easy to get up there in mileage when you two of your days are 20, 25 plus. So mileage adds up really quickly. But one thing like RunDot like looks at is like they're training you to be able to run for like a certain like amount of time, not necessarily a distance. Like your body can't really tell distance, but it could, it could know how long you're doing the thing for. So it's like I'M training. I'm training to run for about three hours at a pretty hard intensity and hopefully a little bit less than three hours. But if I could train that, then that's all I need to do. And I don't necessarily, like, need to have a huge amount of mileage in order to get that done. Yeah, yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: So when you are comparing your times before RunDot and after RunDot, can you do that? Like, can we talk about that a little bit? How have they. Have they improved? Have they stayed the same with a little bit less mileage but more intensity? Like, what have you seen different?

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, I mean, for me, it's probably pretty similar, but, like, the amount of time that I'm able to put in, like, if I had more time, I feel like I could be a lot better than I even was in college. But, like, working, like, multiple jobs and having a life and having a family, like, I'm still able to pretty much hit the times I was hitting in college when I. I was on easy mode back in college. Yeah. Yeah, it was amazing.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah, that's cool. So you ran. Let's talk about your collegiate career. So you ran at North Central College, and. Yeah, like, tell us a little bit about that. Were you always a longer distance guy? Were you a middle distance guy then kind of found your way to the long stuff as you got older?

Nolan McKenna: I mean, I kind of floated in between. So, like, in high school I was like mile to mile and like, I was. I was pretty successful in high school. And then originally I went to Iowa State right out of. Out of high school. So, like, that's where I first went. And honestly had kind of a rough experience there. Like, I got injured my senior year of high school and was kind of never able to, like, overcome that hurdle of like, kind of feeling like I was behind. And. Yeah, that's. It was like, kind of a tricky situation of like, navigating the. The transfer portal and everything. But I knew I wanted to be somewhere where, like, regardless of my performance, I would be, like, accepted into this family and this team. And North Central was that, like, community for me. So, like, Al Curious was our. Our coach. He was like the best, amazing, most energetic, like, just life and blood of the sport kind of guy. Like, he was amazing. And yeah, so I went to North Central. I was there for three years. I did two years at Iowa State. So, like, coming out of Iowa State, I did have a lot of, like, race anxiety and kind of stuff like that. A lot of kind of like, baggage in terms of training. So it did take me a while to, like, kind of get that off my shoulders and stuff. And even sometimes still, I don't feel like I've completely left all of that behind of, like, race anxiety and just, like, anxiety and depression and kind of all those things. Like, it is something that I feel like is under talked about and underrepresented in our sport of, like. Like, we probably should talk about, like, how training and how racing affects us personally and emotionally. I think we should talk about that a lot more. But it did take me a little bit to kind of get over that. But, like, I actually didn't even make the top 10. I went from running at a D1 program to not making the top 10 at the. At the D3 level. And we did, like, win nationals, and we set, like, a points record that year of, like, widest win margin, but I wasn't even in the top 10. But I was still so happy to just be a part of that team and be a part of, like, the culture. Like. Like, the team culture is such that, like, it doesn't matter if you're the first guy on the team or the last guy on the team. Like. Like, we win together, we lose together, and we did a fair amount of winning, which was awesome. So I. I didn't have, like, super big, like, personal success until about my fifth year where that's when I finally made the top seven. I was our sixth runner on the day of cross country nationals, where we won. So the three years I was at Iowa State, we won cross country Nationals all three years at the D3 level. And then I was part of a couple, like, track national teams, too. Like, we won one, and then we're second place a couple other times. But, yeah, the track nationals that meant the most to me was my fifth year where I was able to actually score and compete. So, yeah, I was actually blanking on what place I even was like, that's.

Carrie Tollefson: Welcome to my world, too. I'm like, I don't remember what that was.

Nolan McKenna: I'm like, I know going into the last hundred, but then I got out kicked how many people passed me. But, yeah, so I think I was. I think I was fifth in the Indoor 3000. That was my best place. But, like, being able to, like, score points and, like, win for the team. Like, going into the final event, like, our coach was like, like, hey, we just need a couple more points. And, like, me and my other teammate who is also running the 3K, we're like, all right, let's get it done. And we, like, like, nailed it down for the team. So, like, regardless of what happened in the four by four, like, yeah, we had secured the win, which was just like, such an amazing feeling. Is awesome. Yeah, yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: I'm trying to think of, like, who was your superstar at Iowa State then?

Nolan McKenna: At that time it was Drill Patel.

Carrie Tollefson: Okay.

Nolan McKenna: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, trying to think. Yeah, yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Who are the guys that. Like, there's a couple out there right now, and I'm just. I'm just blanking on their names, but they're out there racing now on the roads.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. Like, Ryan Root is. Is another one. Johnny Crane was a little bit before my time, but he was racing at a very, very high level. Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: So you got a lot of guys.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: I mean, it's pretty cool, like, that you're honest with how hard this sport is and.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: And also just I think because we are these athletes that are so goal driven and results driven, that even though we love it and we love the community and all of it, we can be really hard on ourselves. And I think not only athletes that are at D1 level or that are making us teams, it's athletes of all shapes and sizes, of all backgrounds. This can be. It's a humbling sport every single day. It's hard. Even your easy runs are hard.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, absolutely. Yes.

Carrie Tollefson: You know, it's good to hear and I'm sorry that you went through some dark times, but I also am like, yeah, like, that's kind of what life is about, is how we get through dark times. And I'm thankful you have the run because it seems to lift you up and bring you joy as well.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. Yeah. And like, our stories, like, that's what makes us who we are. And I believe that, like, our challenges and our dark times, like, God gives us that as a way to connect to other people. So it's like I went through something hard, so it's kind of my job and my opportunity to kind of share that and help people through their dark times. Yeah, for sure.

Carrie Tollefson: And isn't it amazing the conversations you have on a run?

Nolan McKenna: Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: There are times where you would never tell anyone, like, some of your deepest secrets and you get out there on a 25 miles run or. Or the next day when you're doing your second 25 miler and everything just kind of comes out. It is a lot of times I don't even know if it's a therapy session or if it's just that, you know, we. Oops. We're just breathing and talking and it's coming out. But it is pretty special when you have those breakthrough moments, not only physically, but like spiritually and all of that.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: We know that you have a GoFundMe link to help raise money for your trip and we're going to put this on our pages. So talk a little bit about that. And. And then I want to talk about Run Disney too, as well, because you had a. Yeah, kind of a fun weekend there.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. So, like, the GoFundMe was like, really, like, I wouldn't be able to do this without that. Like, traveling to India, like, is a pretty big expense with the flights, the hotel and having a new baby and my wife being on maternity leave that was unpaid. Um, it's just like things are pretty tight, but like, this is like a once in a lifetime opportunity that I really just can't pass up. So, like, leaning back on my community for that support has been amazing. I'm so thankful and so grateful for, like, all the people who have supported, but that's been like the biggest thing to kind of get us through this kind of squeeze point. Yeah, for sure.

Carrie Tollefson: Well, we'll definitely spread the word a little bit. It'd be fun to help you out.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Okay, Run Disney, let's talk about that.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: So which one? Like, kind of just tell us everything.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. So I've done a couple different ones. Like, I've done like the Springtime Surprise. I've done that a couple times. But the big one was like the Walt Disney World Marathon weekend where I did the Dopey Challenge. So it's a series race. So it's four days of races in a row. Day one is a 5K, day two is a 10K, day three is a half marathon, and then day four is a marathon. So.

Carrie Tollefson: And it's at like 3:00am, it's before the park opens. So they like start a little earlier every day. Is that what they do?

Nolan McKenna: No, I think most of them were like right at. So I think the first two days were 5am I think they shifted it up to 4:30 for the other two. But our half marathon actually got kind of cut short due to weather. There were some pretty severe thunderstorms. So I did my normal little warm up and they shortened it to a 7.2 mile race or something like that. So I did that race and then me and a couple other people who like, we're also doing the challenge. Like by day three, like, you kind of knew the people you're running around.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah.

Nolan McKenna: So like, we all ran parking Lot loops to get to the 13.1. Because it's like, of course we did. We signed up for the race. I'm gonna do the 13.1. It's not gonna be Dopey Challenge unless I do the full 13.1. So. And then. But yeah, like racing all four days. Like I've always been so jealous of like something like the Tour de France where I really want like a stage race where like, like let's just race every single day. And like for me, like this is like one of the closest things to that where like, like you're gas burning every single day. Like to be able to like go wake up at 4 or 3am to start the race at 4 and like we were ripping sub 5 minute miles every single day. Like it was super fun. But yeah, so like, like I was trying to like originally I was trying to sweep all of them. I didn't end up pulling that up. But I won the 5K, I was second in the 10K, I won the 7 mile and then I was fourth in the marathon, I think. And I basically. I almost set a PR in the marathon after racing for three days. Oh my gosh. Which was awesome. So I know I have a lot left in the tank for like my marathon career. I think maybe after this block I might go back and try and run a fast marathon. But like I, I missed my PR by like, like 30 seconds, I think. But I did have a character stop. I stopped to take a picture with Goofy. That might have cost me the PR.

Carrie Tollefson: I'm sure it did. And it probably cost you a place.

Nolan McKenna: But I mean, Run Disney, like it's not really about the times or anything. Which is the cool thing. Like people are dressing up in costumes. Like, yeah, I got this. Did you wear a costume? I had a singlet that was a Tigger singlet. That was so fun. So a couple of the days I did dress up. I did a power line T shirt for one of them. Power Line from the Goofy movie. But yeah, so like, it's just so fun. Like no one really cares about the times. Like, I'm probably like one of the few people that was like, like, you don't run a Run Disney race to train run a pr. Like, I was one of the few people trained to like actually race it, but like Run Disney. Like they do a really good job. Um, like out of all the marathons, like the most fun I've had in a marathon is the Run Disney marathon.

Carrie Tollefson: I've never done one, but I worked with and I've worked with her a few times. Carissa Galloway, who's like the voice of Disney.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: So that's kind of cool. I mean, I know that so many people just love the races, so.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. Well, take pictures with characters. They stop and ride rides during the race. And like there's like live bands, there's.

Carrie Tollefson: Characters, they will ride rides during their races.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: The Teacups, they just go for a little teacup ride.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. Like Expedition Everest isn't. Is a big one that they're riding and it's like, like, how often can you say you rode a ride during a race? Like, yeah, it's so fun.

Carrie Tollefson: I just always think back to when I went. We. We used to go every other year with the kids. We haven't gone out in a few years, but the last time we went, I rode the Tower of Terror.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: And first of all, I did not know that was what it was gonna do. Like, I knew like there was a drop, but I did not know it was that kind of a drop. And there was this basketball player sitting next to me and my husband was sitting like three seats over from me and this big guy, his knee was like higher than the handle of my chair. And all I know is I grabbed this guy's leg and I was like, oh. Like, oh. You know, the whole time I was grabbing his leg, not the handle of my. Of the chair. And I get done and he's like in 16 year old kid and he's from Australia. And I was like, I promise you I am not a weird American mom. I just. Or American lady. I just thought that was my handle of my chair.

Nolan McKenna: That's so funny.

Carrie Tollefson: I seriously thought I was gonna die. I'm like, Charlie, something's wrong with this ride. This is wild. So fun. But. Okay, well, let's, let's wrap up a little bit because we could chat all day, it seems like.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: I have one more question about you. As a runner and as a coach, you've done a lot. Now, obviously in this sport you've been through some ups and downs and things, but what do you think your one piece of advice would be for an athlete that's getting into RunDot or getting into the sport itself.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. I would say, like, don't take things too seriously. Like, I think like a lot of times it feels almost like life or death. Like, I need to like, do this. I need to perform, I need. Things need to be perfect. And if running in life has taught me anything, it's that nothing is Perfect. Like, things are messy. Things are gonna deviate from the perfect path. But, like, as long as you keep moving forward and kind of keep having fun with things. Like, I mean, like, my whole thing is like, I believe that God gave us our gifts and talents in order to connect with other people. Like, that's a big part of, like, my belief. And it's like. So I need to use running as a way to connect with other people and kind of, like, share that because I think, like, the connections we make along the way and the friendships and like, that's what is, like, really meaningful in the sport. So, yeah, don't take things too seriously. Like, there's a million different ways you could go about things and thing. Like, there's no right or wrong answer. Like, for a while, I was doing like a breaking five series where I would, like, break five minutes of the mile doing a bunch of goofy things. So I did a blue jeans mile. I broke five in blue jeans, a broke five in cowboy boots. I broke five in Crocs. Just a few different things. But, like, things are fun. Like, don't take yourself too seriously. Don't take running too seriously. Like, running is supposed to be fun. Like, let's have some fun with it.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah, we'll have so much fun in New Delhi. But we do have one more question. But I really appreciate the time and I'm excited for you. I think you're going to have a lot of fun wearing that USA jersey.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah. Turmoil here in the States right now. There's a lot going on. No matter what way you lean or if you're right down the middle, doesn't matter. There's a lot of stuff going on. And I know for me too, like, even though right now some people aren't real proud of being an American, but I think when you have the opportunity to wear your country's jersey and you think of everyone and everything that this country stands for, it's pretty amazing. So you're gonna have a blast. I can't wait to hear how you feel when you get your jersey.

Nolan McKenna: You're have to come back on and tell us about it. Yeah.

Cool Down

Carrie Tollefson: Okay, we're gonna. We're gonna head to the cool down now, which is always my favorite part of the workout anyway. Like, I was always nervous on the warmup. And then, you know, you had to be so focused during the. The actual workout part of things. And then the cool down, you could just be, like, so proud of yourself. So this question comes from our audience, and it's. And Stephanie wrote In I've always put my treadmill at 1% incline because everyone says that it replicates the feeling of running outside better than having the treadmill at 0%. Is this true, or is there a better way for her to train on the treadmill?

Nolan McKenna: So if you're looking to replicate outdoor running, I would say, like, the paces will be more accurate to outdoor running if you do put it at that 1% incline. But, like. Like running inside versus, like, outside, like, there are just some naturally inherent differences that, like, you're using some different muscle types and stuff. Me, personally, I would just rather put it at zero and run a little bit quicker and get a little ego boost. I think at zero, you could run at, like, probably 10 to 15 seconds faster per mile than you can running outside. So it's like, I would rather just, like, feel good about myself, like, wow, look how fast I'm running. And, yeah, get that low little boost of confidence and stuff, rather than have it more. More accurate and have it at a 1% incline. Like. And I think there might be some benefit of, like, having it at zero and running faster because, like, you do get a little bit more of, like, a turnover. And I think you're, like, training, like, your, like, nervous system to run at faster paces, even though it's kind of a little easier. So I think you could build some of that, like, higher frequency, higher stride efficiency at those faster paces. I think, like, using a treadmill as a tool in that way, like, we could kind of, like, utilize that. But, yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, like, you need to view the treadmill as a tool, not a crutch. Like, it's. It's a tool to help us get to where we want to go. But if you're looking for an easy way out and you're going on the treadmill because it's. It's easier or something, then that's probably not the way to go.

Carrie Tollefson: But, yeah, it's really interesting that you say that, because even, like, you look at C.J. Albertson, who is kind of a staple, right, for American marathoning, we see him at the Boston Marathon every year. We see him at different marathons throughout the year. But for Boston, for instance, people know that that is a really hilly course, and there's some really strong downhills in the beginning, and he's even put bricks under his treadmill. And for him to do some declines, he wants to pound his quads and learn how to run downhill. So I think I always run at 1%. A lot of times because that's just what my treadmills were set at. You know, when you start a run, it's. Some of them are. That's the automatic percentage that it goes to. But I think that if you can use it as a tool, like you said, and just train however you want, but you have to adjust. Like you said, if you're going to go at 0%, you might want to go a little quicker than you thought you would. Or, you know, there's just different ways of approaching it. So that's interesting. That's good advice.

Nolan McKenna: I don't like the idea, like, oh, I ran this on the treadmill. That means I'm in. I'm in this kind of shape. It doesn't necessarily work that way. Like, yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: I mean, it's also interesting how many people do incline intervals where, you know, they might do eight minutes at 8%, six minutes at 6%. They just. Just have fun with it. If you're on the treadmill, it gets very monotonous. So I think, as you said, if we can have fun in our training, work hard, breathe hard, sweat, follow RunDot, follow Coach Nolan, we'll be good.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, essentially, like, training, we're training to get adaptations, not necessarily just practicing running at certain paces. So it's like, if you think of it like that, like, like you're training to get your body to adapt in a certain way and, like, it doesn't need to be like a dress rehearsal of, like, oh, my race pace is 5:30. I need to practice running 5:30 every single time. Like, it doesn't have to be like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Ebbs and flows. We like it. All right, Nolan, go get them. USA! USA! You got this.

Announcer: Oh, yeah. Thanks for listening to the RunDot podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on your listening platform of choice. For more opportunities to learn from our coaches, check out our YouTube channel and follow RunDot Training on social. Ready to train with us? Head to run.com and get started for free. Until next time. Happy training.