Ace Your Next Assessment Run

Carrie Tollefson: Welcome everybody to the RunDot Podcast. There is an extra special, extra fun, extra meaningful workout in the RunDot app. And that's what we're gonna discuss today. It's the time trial or assessment run. Throughout the year, RunDot athletes will see a 5K, 10K, or a 12-minute time trial on the calendar. And Coach Ryan and Coach EJay are here to help us nail these crucial workouts. Coach Ryan is the founder of Ascend Multi-Sport and has a BS in Biomedical Sciences from Texas A&M University and a respiratory care from UT Health Center at San Antonio. Also with us is professional triathlete and coach Elizabeth James. She has been coaching runners and triathletes since 2014. Hey guys, welcome back to the show.

Ryan Tibball: Hey Carrie, so excited. I love this. It's been a hot minute since here and yeah, this is gonna be a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to it.

Carrie: Yeah. Yay, EJay, you pumped to be back?

Elizabeth James: Same. Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. I mean, anytime I get to talk to you guys about running is a good day. So let's do it.

Carrie: All right. Well, I'm Carrie Tollefson. I'm Olympian broadcaster and your guide to the world of RunDot. We treat the show like any good workout. We'll start with our warm-up question, settle into our main set conversation, and then we'll wind things down by having our coaches answer an audience question on the cooldown. Lots of good stuff today, so let's get after it. All right, our warm-up question today. I like this one. I had to think pretty hard on it, but if you could choose what song was playing as you crossed the finish line of a big race, what song would you choose? EJay, let's start with you.

Elizabeth: Okay, well I have one that is probably not your typical pick. And maybe this is just recency bias as well. I was listening to Coldplay the other day and the song Fix You came on, and that's been a favorite of mine since high school, and I'm thinking just the swell at the end of the song would be like my ideal comeback finish line moment. Just kind of the last couple of years of me fixing all these injuries that seems fitting. So we're not gonna go with something super pumped up, but instead Coldplay is gonna be my finish line song.

Carrie: Love that. That's great. And you are getting fixed up. And we will hopefully hear that song at the end of one of your races real soon. Coach Ryan, what's yours?

Ryan: Yeah, you know, Carrie, when I saw this question, I was like, this is a hard one. I can think of all the songs I like listening to as I take off in a race, in the middle of the race, but at the finish, I was like, wait a minute, I've never really thought about that. And I had to think a bit hard. And I'm a classic rock kind of guy and rock and roll. So I'm gonna break the rules here. And I've got two songs.

And one is All Right Now by Free. So really classic rock. And then the other one is more grunge, kind of in that 90s era. Higher by Creed. Both happy songs, and I think the chorus says it all about, you know, crossing the finish line. I could hear both of those happening, not at the same time, of course, but yeah, I think I have two, so I'm sticking with that.

Carrie: That's okay. We can dare to be different. I like that. I am from Minnesota and a lot of people know that now that they've been listening to the RunDot podcast. But I always think of like Prince because he was from here and Let's Go Crazy came to mind for me. But I also like Lenny Kravitz and I think of American Woman. That one was always a fun one that they'd play indoors. My agent had a race and he would play that when I would run. Cause there's a good beat there if you've heard it. There's whoop, there it is. Fun, but some of the lyrics — I'm like, hmm, maybe I didn't know what all those words were, but I think that's a fun one. There's so many good ones, and I'm not one to have a playlist — are you guys listen, do you listen to music before you start your races really?

Ryan: Yeah, actually I do.

Elizabeth: Always. Yeah.

Ryan: Yeah. It's a mental boost, man. And it just gets the adrenaline really amped up for me.

Carrie: Yeah. I never took the time to make them, but I do like listening to music before I race. And then like hearing it as it plays. So anyway, well, we want to hear from you. Check out our socials and drop us a little note on what your favorite song is or one you would want to hear as you're passing through the finish line. All right, let's head to the main set. We're gonna start off with just the basic question. What is the assessment run in RunDot? Who wants to take it?

Elizabeth: I'll jump in first. Yeah, there's kind of two paths for the assessment option, although there are three different sessions that could be on the RunDot calendar. So kind of that first path is either your 5K or your 10K time trial. And this is, I would say, kind of what runners would see most often on their plan. The most common would be the 5K time trial, but if a runner's 10K time is under 40 minutes, then RunDot may switch them to a 10K assessment. Now often we don't see that in the middle of a training phase, but if they are switching training phases or we have the opportunity to lengthen that assessment for them, then it could be a 10K instead of a 5K. But this is one of the things that I'm actually super excited about. I know Ryan will be able to speak to this a little bit more. He's used it with some of his athletes. There's a more beginner-friendly option as well. And so for runners that are just starting off, there's also the option of a 12-minute time trial instead of your 5K or 10K. So it's just the distance that you can cover in those 12 minutes rather than going for a fixed distance. And I love this. I feel like a fixed distance time trial can be really discouraging or sometimes just physiologically very difficult for someone to pace who's brand new to running. Whereas a fixed time trial can just be cover as much ground as you can, and that's much easier to execute, honestly, for a beginner runner.

Ryan: Yeah.

Carrie: And only beginner runners can do the twelve minute time trial or do you sometimes see — yeah, coach, tell us.

Ryan: That's right. Yeah, that's the ideal, you know, for me — we've got a lot of beginning runners coming off the couch and like, hey, you know, I used to run track when I was fifteen years old and then I'm forty-five now and I haven't been off — I haven't even started really running. I gotta go get shoes still. That's the beauty of RunDot. It's gonna give you that opportunity as a brand spanking new runner and it's like, hey, listen, we just want you to go and do twelve minutes. How far can you cover and get your heart rate in that value as well. And that goes for all the assessments. It's about getting those really critical pieces of data so that — you know, RunDot, we're gonna talk about this more, why are those things important — but yeah, this is great for the beginner runner too. Absolutely, with that 12 minute test.

Carrie: It's about once every four weeks, is that right?

Elizabeth: Yes, yeah, that's the typical cadence of it. Now there's gonna be some different scenarios based on the race calendar and what they've put in as events. Obviously if they're getting closer to an event, we don't want to fatigue them with an assessment. So typical would be every four weeks as long as there's not a race event that would interfere with that training phase.

Carrie: And then when there is a race, does that kind of slide into that assessment? How do you guys look at that?

Elizabeth: The race is really kind of what I would say anchors the training plan. And so when you put that race in, everything is building the runner toward that event. And so if there's enough time between when the runner is starting and that race event to do an assessment two, three, four times on a four-week cadence to continually assess the fitness and make sure that the training is appropriate to get them prepared for that event, then yeah, we're gonna put that in. But let's say somebody's starting off and they have an event, they're doing a 5K in seven weeks. Well, we probably are gonna do an initial assessment to make sure that the training is appropriate, but then we're not likely going to stick another assessment in there before they go run that 5K event, because we want to make sure that we're not taking away from their performance at that race event.

Carrie: Makes sense. Good, okay. Tell me a little bit about how the athletes react when they see it's assessment week. I mean, you guys obviously — RunDot you can use on its own, but you two coach runners alongside RunDot, so you actually get to hear the nerves, maybe the excitement, maybe all the things that athletes go through when it's like, it's assessment week, it's a hard week.

Elizabeth: Yeah. Well, it's funny to see even our reactions as you ask that question because we're both like nodding and smiling. We're like, yeah, there's some emotion attached to this. And I would say you get pretty distinct camps. There's like two areas here. There's the group that lights up — I would say these are more of like the data nerds, the improvement chasers, because assessment week to them is like the report card. I mean, they've been putting in the work for weeks. Now they get to see it pay out. It's very black and white — all right, what is my RunDot? What's my threshold? How did I improve? And that feedback loop is very positive reinforcement for them. They're hooked on it. And then you get the other group that dreads it a little bit. And I get that. These assessments, they hurt in a way that a normal training run doesn't. And they're supposed to be like that, but there's nowhere to hide. You can't just cruise through this. You find out what you are capable of on the day. And sometimes that's an uncomfortable answer. It's not always gonna be an improvement. Sometimes it's a reality check. Sometimes it's a hard conversation either with your coach or yourself as to where things really are and what the training needs to look like. So I think you get people that are really excited for it and then people that dread it, and both are normal.

Ryan: Yeah.

Elizabeth: I've been in both camps. Sometimes I'm like, yes, I can't wait to crush this. And other times I'm like, gosh, this is the reality check that I need right now, but I'm not looking forward to it.

Carrie: Yeah.

Ryan: Yeah, I absolutely agree. Everything EJay just said resonates from a coach and personally. Like she said, I was like, this is assessment week, here we go. I know we're gonna talk a lot more about how do we handle that part, but what EJay said was perfect.

Carrie: That's the fun part I think though about coaching athletes and having a coach — being able to deal with that kind of nerves going into workouts and then being able to figure out how to use that energy knowing that you did it, then going into race week. And that's something that I really miss in my training, because right now I'm just kind of training for life and just having fun, not doing anything really. I'm just kinda going out for jogs. And then I run hard some days when people are faster than me, then I run easy some days when I'm going with the kids. But I miss that ebb and flow of really devoting myself to getting after it and going hard and doing something like an assessment run.

Ryan: Yeah. Exactly.

Elizabeth: Yeah, and it's perfect mental preparation too for racing, as you said. There's a good part of that that translates perfectly. The nerves, the anticipation, the wanting to do well. And then kind of assessing the results and figuring out what happened, what could be better, how well did you execute? So it's important for the training, but it's a great skill that I think often gets overlooked in that assessment piece. It's also mental preparation, physical preparation for race day. Treat that like a little race rehearsal.

Carrie: Yeah. Yep. Exactly. Race rehearsals are so good for us in life and then beyond, to be honest. I tell my athletes this all the time, that what we experience as athletes really only makes us better people. So I agree. Let's talk a little bit about the assessment week and what it serves. I mean, it serves numerous purposes for TriDot when you're a triathlete, but also RunDot training software as well, and the athlete. So talk me through the different purposes and services for a regular assessment here at RunDot.

Ryan: Yeah, there are multiple purposes. With TriDot and RunDot the software, it's all about having accurate training zones. That's exactly what you need. I don't know too many people that are just allowed out the door when they've got a half marathon, 5K, 10K, marathon on their calendar and they're like, well, I wanna randomly train today. And so, with this data — putting it in there, it's gonna create their zones, their pacing zones, their heart rate zones. And if they run by power, it's always an option. If you have a power meter, then those zones will be set up appropriately as well. So having these regular assessments is just gonna continue to update, they're gonna adjust, which is really nice with the TriDot and RunDot system — it also adjusts for the environment. So your paces and your power zones adjust for the environment, temperature, humidity, elevation. And it's such a critical piece, especially — I don't know about y'all's weather, but here it's routinely hitting 90 plus to 100 plus degrees, and humidity is just ridiculously oppressive. So this data goes into the system and helps you train appropriately no matter where you're at, what the conditions are. Now for the athlete, it's not just about the zones. You guys actually touched on it already — it's about the opportunity to learn and get those repetitions of practice without the pressure of an actual race. And even though it may give that same nervous energy — which I translate to positive, and I encourage my athletes to do the same. This is positive energy. That means you're invested in what you're doing and you really value this. So turn it around and put it into action, getting those assessments done.

And these assessments are practices for warming up, practices for fueling properly, executing, learning execution styles, practicing that execution again, not having to worry about the actual race day. You're just practicing it now. And so it changes that mental outlook on things. And practice makes perfect, right? So keep practicing those assessments, 'cause on race day, you're gonna have it nailed down for sure.

Carrie: Yeah. Yep. EJay, you have anything to add?

Elizabeth: Yeah, I love that, Ryan. You said that so well. The other thing that I use the assessments for — and this is much more from the coaching perspective, but I think that athletes can use this as a sign as well — is that if something just isn't quite adding up in an assessment, or the series of two or three, sometimes that can be a big red flag. So if the zones are coming back flat or slower than expected, or there's just something that is almost like an anomaly in terms of where the heart rate is — those can be things that I would look at as a coach and say, okay, what else is going on here? Maybe life stress is up. So maybe they're not recovering well between sessions and they just can't push that hard. Maybe their resting heart rate is way, way higher than we would expect. So I think sometimes the assessments are also a really good checkpoint to just see what else is going on besides the training. And oftentimes the assessments for my athletes are what prompt that talking point of what else is going on. Why do we think maybe this wasn't as good as we were expecting, and what else is going on? It's actually been the case that we've had to purposefully dial things back just because of life stress, not necessarily because they were training poorly, but just because they couldn't recover. Or there was kind of an anomaly in terms of how high the heart rate was. And it's like, let's make sure that we get your doctor in on this too and check with that. So there's another piece there that can be a good checkpoint from these assessments for coaches and athletes alike.

Carrie: Yeah. What do you think the best practices are for when, where, and how to do this workout? Do you recommend it on the track? Do you recommend it on a flat course? If you're getting ready for a hilly course, do you say let's do a hilly one? What do you think?

Elizabeth: I would say that the assessments need to be repeatable. So for me, I always encourage the athletes to find a very flat course or to go to a track. If they can go to a track, that's my number one recommendation. Hills mess with pacing. If you're doing different routes, then you're not necessarily comparing apples to apples. You want something that's repeatable so that you can really look at those overall trends. Some athletes will need to do this workout on a treadmill once in a while because they aren't going to be safe going outside — Minnesota in December, maybe not the best idea to go try to run a 5K around the track if it's icy. But we just want to make sure that things are repeatable, consistent, and would match what the athlete could do in training. And then, as Ryan was saying already — this is such a good opportunity for athletes to go through the warm-up, the pacing, the fueling. You want to treat this kind of like that race rehearsal. So how you're doing it matters. You want to make sure that you're well warmed up. Put in your dynamic warm-up, a few short strides, and then really just nail a pace that you can consistently hold. You're not going out too fast, and that's the easiest mistake to make. If you go out too hot because the adrenaline's up and you fade in the back half, then you really aren't showing what you're capable of, because a positive split like that almost always is gonna underrepresent what you're capable of, because you're just slowing down so much at the end. So hold back a little bit and then try to execute your best.

Carrie: Ryan, does RunDot give you some sort of idea of what kind of pace to go out at?

Ryan: You can actually look back — and this is what's great — because RunDot is actually utilizing all your workouts prior to and quantifying, so you can see where you've been pacing at, say for example your zones four, two, three, four, five, etc., that you can use, and you understand, hey, this is where I need to start out at as I take off. And like EJ said, please don't play the bank. I'm not gonna bank some time up front in this first mile. I'm gonna go out at six minute pace and then drop off to eight minute pace on the last mile. Terrible way of going about things.

Carrie: I might have raced like that a lot, sorry. And done time trials like that. I know.

Elizabeth: We all have. We all have.

Carrie: We all like to go hot, get off the line hot. That's just how it is.

Elizabeth: We're all guilty. It's exciting. We get it, we get it.

Ryan: Guilty. Yeah. But again, you can look and go, hey, I've been running, I did three by seven intervals, zone four, and I've been at the top end. You can start there, and you've been doing those in workouts. Well, the feeling needs to begin with, after a great warm-up and a mindset check, and your tunes on your music going on, you're like, okay, this is where I need to start. And like I said, EJay said, just work through it, keep that steady effort and continue to push stronger and stronger and stronger. And again, it is an uncomfortable thing, guys. It's not gonna lie about it, but that's the whole point. You now get to feel what that feels like. Cause again, if you do it in practice, you're gonna do it on race day. You're gonna make that same feeling happen. You're gonna push. You're gonna drive it. You're gonna go, hey, I've been here before. And we've said it three or four times already — mindset, mental preparation, let's go and work on that. I think, on top of that, warm-up is key, guys. Really warm-up is absolutely key. You have to activate your muscles, and — as a respiratory therapist — your cardiovascular system, you've gotta get that warmed up. Because otherwise, if you decide to take off without a proper warm-up, this can go to pot real, real, real fast. And again, this muscle activation — talk to your coach about those things, look them up, exercises that wake up the glutes, the hamstrings, the quads, the calves. Because you know, do not do static stretching cold, but you can after appropriate warm-up. These are great approaches to do this. EJ said a lot of great ones, and again, we're just trying to maximize this opportunity, right?

Carrie: Well, I know what the next podcast should be with you and I, Ryan — the proper warm-up. And that we could talk about for thirty minutes, because there's so many people that don't understand why we do drills, why we might do a couple wind sprints or strides before. And this is the perfect type of workout where we do want you to do some strides. We do want you to make sure you get some water in. We want to stretch. We want to do drills, because we're gonna spike our heart rate off the line. So we're gonna do that, okay? Hold me to it, okay? Next question — what advice do you have for pacing the 5K and the 10K effort? We kind of got into it with Ryan a little bit, but EJ, I could see that you were nodding your head when he was talking about maybe looking back at some of the workouts, things like that. What do you advise to your athletes about pacing?

Elizabeth: Yeah. If an athlete is doing the assessment for the very, very first time, it's often difficult for them to know how to pace it. And that first one is truthfully a little bit more of an experiment — hey, let's see what happens during this. And I encourage them to start off more conservative, hopefully build their way through. And then we could use that information for the next one. Now, if an athlete has done a number of assessments before, then that's great information to look back and say, okay, let's look at what your time was before. Let's look at what the conditions are. Let's look at what your threshold pace is that you have been running, and let's calculate based off of that. The numbers are gonna be different for everybody, but that same principle that we've talked about of wanting to run kind of like an even effort and not do that fast-and-fade is key. And I know that we talked about this before, but I just want to hammer that home — if you go out too hot, you don't actually test your threshold. You are testing how long you can hold on to a pace that's faster than threshold before you blow up. Because if you go out too hot, you will blow up. That's just physiologically what is going to happen. And it's not only giving RunDot inappropriate data, but truthfully it's a bad experience. I've been there. I've blown up on a 5K. I got two and a half miles in and I was done — basically felt like walking to the end. And it's a bad experience. It doesn't feel good. And so when I'm working with runners, I do try to coach them to hit those specific efforts, be more conservative in the beginning, and just really hold steady. I love breaking this into thirds. So whether it is the 5K, the 10K, or even that 12-minute assessment, we can break that into three pieces as well. Where it's like the first part, you are holding back a little bit — this is not, you know, as fast as I could go — and that's good, because you can't hold a sprint effort for the duration of the assessment. And then that second part is where it's like, okay, I'm in a good rhythm, but this is not comfortable — I'm still having to work for this a little bit. And then that last third of it, you should be like, I'm ready to be done, I don't know that I could do much more. And that's a wonderfully executed assessment. When you get to the end and you're like, I don't think I could have gone much faster, but I didn't just dive bomb and couldn't make it to the end of the assessment either. So think about breaking that into thirds. And if you have previous assessment data, looking at that to help you find that good starting point, especially for that first third of it, is a good route to set yourself up for success.

Carrie: It's a good way to kinda break it up and to be able to visualize going into it, kind of not getting too overwhelmed with it. Ryan, do you — that was what I meant when I asked the question. Like, how do we actually pace ourselves maybe per mile, per K, however you look at it? But Ryan, do you ever advise people to have pacers? Like have people out there, whether they're on a bike or someone that can run that assessment with someone, or someone even yelling maybe splits on the track, if they need just some sort of company to keep them going.

Ryan: Yeah, I think that goes along the lines of just having that motivational music too. I have no complaints if somebody says, hey, coach, can you pace me or whatever — I was like, yeah, sure, let's go. Assuming that we're going to pace ourselves correctly and pace them well, we're gonna give that carrot to chase a little bit, and absolutely — I've had athletes where I gave them the mile splits or the quarter mile splits or whatever it is. And I break it, because I break it down very similarly to EJ. I actually have four pieces. I just like to swallow little chunks a little more. But it's the last mile that I actually broke into two pieces, outside of that. But yeah, answering that question, I have zero problems with it. I think motivation is great, and even the self-motivation — I have to say that. It's like, why are you doing this? And what's your why, in the first place. And remind yourself of that. And I verbally say it out loud a lot. So there's a lot of different ways to approach it from a motivational standpoint in that matter. So yeah, absolutely.

Carrie: So what happens in RunDot after the runner does their 5K or 10K or 12-minute time trial?

Ryan: You want to take that, EJay?

Elizabeth: Either way. Go ahead, Ryan.

Ryan: All right. Well, so now that you've done your assessment, and RunDot will set up your pacing and your heart rate zones and your power zones, like I mentioned earlier, if you do run by power — but it doesn't stop there. So then RunDot takes those results and environment-normalizes for what you just did. So — what I'm talking about is I've had some runners like, hey, it's really warm outside, I'm so used to running in ideal conditions — and you know what, it doesn't matter, because TriDot, or RunDot, will turn around and normalize those results for the environment. So temperature, humidity, elevation, where you did your assessment — and you can actually see your progression through the summer months, which is amazing. And I'll be honest, I like to do my assessments in the summertime, because I know what RunDot is doing is normalizing everything, and I can see the fruits of my labors that I've been putting in through the spring and into the summer, and it really does work. So just because your time may be slower doesn't mean you are slower until it's normalized for the environment you just did that in. And that's important for our listeners to understand. It's also, thinking forward — when you do your future workouts, all you have to do is say, hey, I'm gonna go work out at two o'clock in the afternoon, and boom, your paces, your zones change based on the environment, like I just talked about. So that's why it's important to do your assessments regularly and not skip them just because the conditions are not ideal. RunDot will take care of that for you. So keep on training, keep doing those assessments, get that practice in.

Carrie: Yeah, EJay, you wanna add to that?

Elizabeth: Man, I don't know that I truthfully could add a whole lot more. Ryan covered that so well with what's happening behind the scenes on the software. I think the only other thing that I would emphasize is that this is an important data feedback loop. We are kind of giving RunDot the information it needs to prescribe the best possible training. So do the assessments. Please, please, please do the assessments. I know they're hard, I know they hurt, I'm right there with you. I don't always want to do them, but understanding what goes on behind the scenes — you know why it's so critical not to skip those, and to make sure that everything is as personalized as it can be for you, where you are right now, to prepare you for the races that you want to do. So yeah, Ryan, great explanation of why that's so important, what's happening behind the scenes. And I think that's the only thing I'd emphasize — now that you understand what's going on, don't skip the assessment.

Carrie: But then that kind of leads into the next question, because so many athletes see their scores and they're like, what's going on? Or it might be changing, they're wondering if they're doing the right workouts, or if they're doing them properly, are they doing a good job? So what is the numerical improvement that athletes should be trying to see or watching over their course of their training?

Elizabeth: I'm so glad you asked that because it's a question that we get frequently — kind of like, what's the RunDot score and how much should it go up? Okay, so let's talk about the RunDot score first and what that actually is. So the RunDot score is a score from one to one hundred, and that measures your performance ability, where a hundred is world class. To be honest, I've never seen a hundred. Now maybe Carrie, if you were to run — we'd see yours there.

Carrie: Not now. Maybe way back in the day.

Elizabeth: We'll put some of that historical race data in and we'll see what your RunDot was — probably a hundred at that point. But yeah, it's not like a grade where — former teacher here, I want hundreds — probably not gonna get hundreds on my RunDot score. But the key detail about the RunDot score is that it is equalized. So it is able to compare your performance against someone of like a similar age and gender. So right off the bat, you're not having somebody who is sixty years old being compared to someone that's a twenty-two-year-old elite runner. So you kind of know where you're at in your own demographic.

Carrie: But is that RunDot score — not to interrupt you, EJay — you know how our VO2 maxes, for instance, mine is way different than my training partner's. But it doesn't really matter because we have our own body. So what is it like for the RunDot score? Is it like a VO2 max score? Is it like your heart rate? So it's a little different for everyone. So you can't really be like, I got an eighty-nine but you got a seventy? Can you explain that to me?

Elizabeth: Yeah. I would say VO2 Max and heart rate are kind of in their own category, because that's gonna be very physiologically based and very individualized. But with the RunDot score, for me, I would be able to compare my RunDot score to other athletes that I'm competing against in my age group. And we would be able to know, based off of fitness-wise and our assessment scores, like if we were to race head to head — if somebody's got an 80 and somebody's got a 60, unless there's a major execution difference there, the one with the 80 RunDot score would be expected to perform better in that race. And so you can kind of track your performance improvement over time, and you can look at it in comparison to those of a similar demographic to you.

Carrie: Would be favored. Mm-hmm. Okay, cool.

Elizabeth: But now on the improvement question — and I think this is where a lot of people get hung up — they're expecting this steady linear climb, like I should bump my RunDot two points every single month. And that's not how it works, and it shouldn't work that way, honestly. A two-point improvement for a developing athlete, somebody that's just starting off, could be in a matter of weeks. Whereas somebody who is up in the upper 80s for their RunDot score, getting a two-point jump for an elite athlete, that could be years of dedicated training, because they are so close to their performance potential already. So as runners are starting off and those RunDot numbers are lower, they have more of an opportunity to improve, and improve at a faster rate. But the closer you get up beyond like a RunDot of 70, it's gonna be much more difficult to see that continue to climb, and especially at a quick rate. So yeah, I hope that helps a little bit. Ryan, anything that you would add there?

Ryan: No, you couldn't have said it any better, really. That was a perfect explanation, and you know, being at the pointy end of the spear, like say Carrie, you would be at that pointy end of the spear. You might be like, wait a minute, I'm not bumping the numbers, so to speak. And that doesn't mean you're not improving, and that doesn't mean you're not progressing — you absolutely still are. It's just not, as you know, when you get newer runners like EJ was saying, they'll see some bigger gains quicker just because they've been new to the sport. So yeah, absolutely, Ejay nailed it on that one.

Carrie: And EJay, you know, you're coming back from this injury. So once you're ready to do those assessments, you have to be willing to probably have a lower score coming in, correct? So you're gonna see that. And that actually — I kind of like that. As an athlete, when I was coming back from injury, I had no idea where I was. I could watch the time, right, I could watch my heart rate, but that RunDot score might give us just kind of like a little something to chase, to get back to where we should be or where we've been in the past, not just looking at times all the time.

Elizabeth: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. So I know that the first assessment I do back, it's gonna take a hit. My RunDot score is gonna drop dramatically. But I know that, and honestly, it's comforting to know that then my training is going to be personalized to where I am right now. That I'm not gonna come back and get workouts for where I was in May when I was at top fitness and running some of my best times, because that just would not be smart for my body to try to go back and hit some of that now. I would end up injuring myself immediately. So it's great to know, comforting to know, that that drop in the RunDot is actually making sure that the training is appropriate for me.

Carrie: Exactly. The data doesn't lie when it knows what your body's doing, and that is so hard when you're not looking at data and you're coming back from injury or time off, because we always automatically go too hard and then we run the risk of injury, fatigue, all of the things. So — can we just have a side note, how are you doing?

Elizabeth: I am walking in the boot without crutches. So I'm thrilled. We're months away from running. If I'm running by November, that will be wonderful. But I'm allowed to get on the bike in the boot, so I'm starting to get some of that cardiovascular training up again, and we'll get there.

Carrie: Yay. What do they think? What is the timeline? A month still? Okay. Can you get on the UBE? Can you do the arm bike yet?

Elizabeth: I've been doing that since the day after surgery. I tell you what, that's hard.

Carrie: You have. Yeah. Well sometimes they don't want you to have that pressure on your heel or on your foot, but it is so hard — forward, backwards, all the things. It's so good though. Get so sweaty.

Elizabeth: Yeah. That's been an interesting investment of time in the gym, but yes, on the mend.

Carrie: Yay, but you're on the mend. Okay, good to know. Okay, tell me a little bit about how our performance in the time trial impacts our future training sessions. Ryan, let's start with you. What do you take from it and where do we go with it?

Ryan: Yeah, it has a direct impact, obviously. We all wanna know what our zones are to continue to progress in training, right? And I always compare this to — random training produces random results. I don't like random results. So what it's gonna do — your time trial numbers are gonna have a direct impact by setting up your zones appropriately. We've talked about that already. And it's not just appropriately, it's precise. And on top of the precision of your zones being set up, it's adjusting for the environment you're training in. So knowing all of this with RunDot — knowing your zones and how fast to run when it is ninety degrees and humidity is just ridiculous — you can still properly train. I've seen this — I don't know how many times a week I see this — athletes like, how do y'all doing this, how are you training in the middle of the summer and these heat waves are coming in? And I feel so wrecked and exhausted. And it's like, well, RunDot, use it, trust it. Because that is exactly what it's doing for you, is helping you. And that's how it impacts your future training sessions — by making these adjustments right then and there with a tap of a button. And so it's such a key thing. People don't realize the value there is precision in zones, precision in environment — all of those impact your future training sessions for sure.

Carrie: EJay, Ryan just said "key" — and that made me think of this: it is a key session of your training cycle. So is there ever a time where it's okay to skip it? Or also, on the flip side, if you are just feeling it and you're in this rhythm and you're crushing your training, do you ever throw in an unscheduled assessment just to make sure you haven't really bumped up a bunch of points and you're at a new level?

Elizabeth: Glad that we kind of came back to this, because after my whole "hey, do your assessments, you need to do them, this is so important," I was like — but there is a caveat here. So I'm glad we're circling back to that, because there is a time and a place where you should skip the assessment. It's not a non-negotiable type thing. If there's a legitimate reason to push it back — like if somebody's sick, if they're dealing with an injury flare-up, if they're just going through a brutal stretch of life stress — then yeah, we maybe don't want to do the assessment for that week, maybe that day. There are very legitimate reasons to push it back. Goodness, with this injury, it will take me a long time to work my way up to being able to do an assessment again. I will need the doctor to sign off. I'll need the PT to sign off. Mentally, I'm gonna need to be ready for that too. So if somebody is coming back from an injury, we need to build up properly before we go and do an assessment. If somebody has a previous injury that's starting to flare up a little bit, and we're able to keep training but working maybe with a PT or somebody to just keep things happy and calm, we might want to be mindful of not going at an all-out effort and flaring things up with an assessment. Especially if it's a part of the training block where maybe it's their last one before the race — let's make sure that we're continuing to keep the body in a state of happiness and what it needs. And then again, if somebody's sick or has been sick and they're just coming back — I had an athlete, gosh, it was earlier this year, and they had the flu the week before. And the next week was supposed to be assessment week. And they're like, all right, well, I'm rearranging things for assessments. I was like, gosh, no, we are not doing assessments the week after you've had the flu. We need to get things back to a good homeostasis before we go. So yes, assessments are important, but there's a time and a place where it just is not going to give us the information we need, or it's gonna be too much for the body to push at that high of an intensity rate. So we do want to delay that. And then on the flip side, somebody that is absolutely crushing their training — if their execution scores are excellent, the workouts that used to be hard now feel really easy, they're almost over exceeding in terms of the training zones or the intervals — then it might be time to put a new assessment on there. Oftentimes I'll find that when athletes put a number of B races on their calendar and don't have the assessments on that four-week cycle because it is kind of prioritizing the race events. Sometimes I'll need to work with an athlete and say, hey, we actually do need a time trial here or there. If they've got a whole bunch of half marathons that they're doing as they're working up to a marathon, it won't always prescribe an assessment because we're making sure that you're ready for those races. But at some point, if they're outperforming their zones, then we need to reevaluate that and make sure that the training is aligned for their best preparation. And we might put an assessment in.

Carrie: And you can do that as a coach — you can suggest to RunDot to put that into the program. But if someone doesn't have a coach like you or Ryan with RunDot, what happens then? They just have to put it in there?

Elizabeth: Yes. Mm-hmm.

Ryan: Yep. Yeah, they can actually change the workout to a run assessment and they can actually do it. That's really cool — a part of what RunDot gives you, that freedom to make — hey man, these workouts are way too easy right now, my zones are off — well, don't keep training that way. Do an assessment, get it done, and speed it up.

Carrie: I hope all these RunDot athletes feel that way, because that would be amazing. So many times we're just chasing it, you know, it's like running on a — what are those called? Rat wheel? Hamster wheel, not a rat wheel.

Ryan: Hamster wheel.

Elizabeth: Yeah.

Carrie: But yeah, I think that would be so cool. There are times, like I remember a few times in my career when I was like, I'm just nailing it, you know? And that is such a good feeling. So I hope people experience that a couple of times in their training blocks. We gotta know though, okay — you guys are runners, we know that. So you coach, but you also run. So I wanna know, when it comes to your own assessment, what do you guys do? Do you go to the track? Tell me where you go to run and what your routine is like.

Elizabeth: All right, I'll start us off. Okay, we're both so excited to talk about assessments. It's funny though, because you'd think after years of coaching, I'd be more at peace with the assessments, but there's just something about it — I still get that pit in my stomach. It's like I honestly don't sleep super well the night before assessments. For me, that's like perfect race practice, 'cause I'm nervous for this just like I would be race day. Probably not gonna get the best sleep. But yeah, I'm so fortunate — I've got a track that's a mile from the house. And so oftentimes I will use that as my warm-up. I'll use that as my warm-up jog — just jog the mile to the track. Then do my dynamic warm-ups, a couple strides, and there we go, most of the time.

Carrie: Do you change your shoes?

Elizabeth: Most of the time — I'm so fortunate, my husband is such a great supporter. And so when I take off on my warm-up jog to the track, he will usually drive to the track with the water, the protein shake for afterward, the change of shoes. So as I'm jogging over, he's got the whole assessment thing set up for me.

Carrie: Nice. Your toolkit.

Elizabeth: So yes, I will do my warm-up, I'll do my dynamics, and then I'll usually change my shoes before I do a few strides. I like doing the strides just to get the feel for it, and then take off and go.

Carrie: I kinda like that he does that though, because then you do get into this routine of going to the track and he'll be there, he'll be able to cheer for you maybe, or maybe do you kick him out?

Elizabeth: No, he's always there cheering. Depending on where he is in his own training progression, he's been a great pacer too. Sometimes he'll pace me — he's done that pacing on foot, he's done that pacing on the bike. Other times he's just back and forth across the football field yelling splits. Usually, as we've talked about, at the first quarter mile, half mile, he's like, slow down, steady, don't go out too fast. And then yeah, making sure that I kick it in at the end and give it all I've got. But yeah, I'm very fortunate with my assessment routine — not only how easy it is for me to access the track so close to home, but the support that I have, which makes it a repeatable thing for me.

Carrie: Yeah. Ryan, how do you do it?

Ryan: Man, this is a fun question, and like EJay said, it doesn't get old. I still get nervous, and I'm like, you know, I gotta get after this. And it becomes, for me — I'm all about mindset, and I gotta change my mindset. This is — I say this is not a choice, Ryan, you gotta do this. And I start speaking in third person. But over time, I have created several routes in my area, and with the Texas weather, these winds are ridiculous out of the south a lot of times, so I have to be mindful of that. So sometimes either I go to the track like EJ, or I'll say, you know what, I'm tired of that track, and I'm just gonna go east-west and have a side wind kind of thing. But either way, what I search for — and always suggest to athletes — is minimal obstacles. Whatever it is, stop signs, stop lights, intersections — you need to avoid those things. And you're out and back — your start and endpoint have to be in the same place. So that's why I've created so many routes to get these things done. But I do have my playlist ready — my playlist is ready to rock, and I call it my 5K race playlist. So I'm listening to the same music as I would if I'm stepping up to the line of a 5K. And I actually have the prelude music where it's just playing and I'm getting through my warm-up, and it's like it's getting the pump going, and then I know when this next song hits — it's a lot of rock —

Carrie: Mm-hmm. The jock jams — you got the jock jams going, Ryan. Those are good ones actually.

Elizabeth: Ha ha.

Ryan: You don't want to see my playlist, Carrie, I'm just saying — some of it's really rowdy stuff, but I have it set up in such a way that it progresses and gives me those bite-sized chunks through the songs, and gives me that — like EJay said, the layout — start off strong but hold steady, hold steady, hold steady, and then fire it off, finish with nothing left in the tank. And that last song is it. So I have that, and then I have an extended version where I've got the 10K playlist that just keeps going, and then I've got the half marathon playlist 'cause I'm a junkie in that too. So it's about mindset for me. I just gotta get myself jacked and pumped for it. And I'll pop the gel too, by the way — I'm gonna hit the gel right before I take off, just like I would on race day. And I might even carry a spare one — sometimes I take it for a ride, is what I call it — I took that gel for a run. I get home, I'm like, there it is, put it back for the next one.

Carrie: I love that. Sure, sure. Yep, but it was there in case you needed it. I love that. My last question was gonna be about mindset and how you talk about this race assessment, the test day, with your athletes. But when I was listening to you, Ryan, it's kinda like what EJay said, how she broke it down — but you also seem to break it down maybe by word cues. Like when I raced I had a word for each lap for the mile, or when I was running 5Ks, I had a different phrase or a word for each K. And just like some of the sayings that you said here, I could hear it in your voice how you get fired up when you're saying those few things. Is that something you do with your athletes to get them really kind of in the right head space before they do this?

Ryan: Yeah, I do. And you know, this is a positive thing, guys — that's how I tell it. It's like, this is a positive thing, this is great, you get to do this. And turn that nervous energy around and create that positive space for yourself to get it done — no matter the outcome, knowing that you're helping yourself down the line. But yeah, it's gritty. Some athletes I can talk a certain way, like a sailor, and then others I can't, so you know.

Carrie: Yep. Like if you're a college coach and you said some of the things that maybe you say to athletes, you get booted. But you gotta keep it clean sometimes. I just think of that — the coaching nowadays, you have to ride that wave, but you gotta be careful with what you say, especially to younger athletes these days. You can't be quite as harsh as you used to be.

Ryan: Right. Yeah.

Elizabeth: It's so true though. It's so athlete-dependent. And I think for me, I coach a number of athletes that are extremely hard on themselves. Maybe that's just the client that I attract, I don't know. But yes.

Carrie: Yeah. Perfectionists, right? Don't you think endurance athletes sort of are that way? We're perfectionists, we're hard on ourselves.

Ryan: Yeah.

Elizabeth: Yeah. And so, I mean, there's a few that I have to pump up, but honestly, more for me, I coach a lot of people that need the reassurance that whatever the number is, it's gonna be okay. This is not a life-or-death scenario. This is a checkpoint, it's not a verdict. I'm not judging them based off what they're running — we will still work together, we'll still coach. If something happens, it's okay. And I think the other part of that — and we talked about this a little bit, even with the injuries that I've had — is it's an honest effort. It's not a personal best every time. Now, if somebody hits a personal best every single time, fantastic — then they also probably have one coming that won't be, because if you're in the sport long enough, you're not gonna nail every single one of those. So it's an honest effort. It's just a checkpoint. And ultimately, we have the opportunity to tell the RunDot software, this wasn't an honest effort, or this wasn't the assessment. And I think that's one of the things I just thought of now, and I really want to reiterate — if you have an assessment that just tanks — I think some athletes are so worried about the assessment because they're like, but all my numbers are gonna be based off that. It's like, yes, but you can still go in and manually remove that if it is not an effort that is going to serve you well in your training going forward. We need to be honest with ourselves. But yeah, the assessment where I couldn't make it past two and a half miles and then walk to the finish — I did not leave that in there as an assessment, because it would have made everything way too easy for the next couple months.

Carrie: Or that train goes by when you least expect it, 'cause believe me that can happen for sure, you know? So you never know, there could be things that mess up an assessment. So that's good to know that you can take it out, EJay. That's a good point.

Ryan: Yes.

Carrie: I have one last question before we get to the cooldown. How often do you find that these assessments line up pretty evenly with a race effort? Or do you typically always see that an athlete can go harder in races just by being in the environment and being really ready, maybe even tapered down for a race? Do you naturally see a tick in pace where they are running faster during their races?

Ryan: Ask that again real quick, Carrie. Say that again.

Carrie: So I just wanna know if the assessment is pretty close to actual race pace for a lot of the athletes, or — I did have some time trials for years, my PR for the 800 meters, so it's a little bit shorter, but was from practice. So I know that some people can nail it and hit it, but I'm just wondering if an assessment is usually a little bit slower than your actual race day performance.

Ryan: Yeah, I have found that over my experiences — personal experiences and even as my athletes — yeah, they've done a 5K assessment, but then, obviously the difference is they're not tapered for these assessments typically. It's not a fresh — no. Right. And so that's important to note — while —

Carrie: Yeah. Yes. They don't have the ambiance around them.

Ryan: Now I've had a lot of these like, man, I just PR'd my 5K in my assessment. And I was like, that's great — wait until race day, you're about to do it again. Because they're fresh on race day. If we assume we're gonna put that race in as an A race, then they're gonna be tapered down, they're gonna get their rest, their muscles are gonna be recovered.

Carrie: Uh-huh. Right. They're pumped.

Ryan: So yeah, to differentiate between the two — typically you wouldn't expect a PR in a 5K assessment, just 'cause you're not extremely fresh.

Carrie: Yep. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. This has been really good. Good for me to learn about it too, as I'm learning my way through RunDot. Are you ready for the cooldown question? I think this is gonna just be for the ladies, Ryan. But you have lots of ladies in your life, so you will learn something today, okay? Alright, so the cooldown question came all the way from London. Bethany asked —

Ryan: Well boo. I mean, you know — come on now. But I might learn something.

Elizabeth: Mm-hmm.

Carrie: Question for the run girls — sorry boys. "I have yet to find a sports bra that I love for running. Any I've tried have been okay, but never great. What's everyone using and loving?" EJ, what are you wearing? What are you recommending?

Elizabeth: All right, well I've got two recommendations. Now Carrie, I know that Adidas has been very kind to you, but I will say Nike has always been one of my favorites for sports bras. They have a great variety depending on how much support you want — wide straps, thin straps. But I would say like 98% of the sports bras that I've owned and loved have been Nike. But I do have to give some love to the Rabbit Utilibra, which also has one of the coolest names — I was like, that's genius. The coolest part is it has this pocket between the shoulder blades for your phone. So I've gone back and forth between — do I run with my phone, do I not, do I want music, do I not — for years I would run without it, and more and more I'm running with it now, and I don't want to carry it. I know we used to have those big pockets that we'd strap around our arms, and that just never worked for me — I don't have good enough biceps for that to stick. So this has been a game changer, keeping the phone in that back pocket there. It's wonderful. So I have to say Nike will always be my go-to, but Rabbit's Utilibra has also won my heart, and I appreciate the pocket there.

Carrie: Love it. Great. Yep, I do like my three stripes, but I will say that the three-stripe bras that I wear are pretty universal — they're not really specific. They do have some that are a little bit more specific for maybe heavier-chested women. I am not that well endowed, if I could say that. So I just kind of wear a basic sports bra. But I will tell you, a good friend of mine makes her own sports bras — it's called Kuvetta, K-U-V-E-T-T-A. She's a one-person show. She does have a couple of ladies that she asks to help sew her sports bras, but she sews all of them. She can make like six in one hour. She was an endurance athlete, a skier and a runner, and now she's in Boulder and she basically does all of this out of her own apartment. So Kuvetta is really nice — if you wanna support a young up-and-comer in the female business world, Kuvetta is where it's at. Lots of very good options though. They're really cute — she's got the really cute material and things like that.

Elizabeth: That's cool. Writing that down.

Carrie: Thank you for the question though, all the way from London. Go get 'em, Bethany.