On the Road Again: Run Training While Traveling

Carrie Tollefson: Today we are talking about the intersection between two of our favorite things, run training and travel. When we are on a trip, what can we do to continue running, enjoy the experience and get the most out of our runs? All of that and more with today's coaches. And we're joined by professional triathlete and coach Elizabeth James. She's been coaching runners and triathletes since 2014. And also on the show we have coach Stephen Horan. From IronMind Endurance, he has been competing and running in triathlons for over 30 years and has done 20 plus marathons and 20 plus Ironman finishes. Crazy. Stephen has been coaching distance runners since 2005 and is also a co-owner of Fleetfeet Hickory Running Store. And I'm Carrie Tollefson, Olympian broadcaster and your guide to the world of run. We treat the show like any good workout. We'll start with a warmup question, settle into our main set conversation, and then wind things down by having our coaches answer an audience question on the cool down. Lots of good stuff today, so let's get after it. Hey everybody, how you doing?

Stephen Horan: Doing well. Yeah.

Elizabeth James: I'm excited to be here. This is great.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah, I know. Travel and running, my gosh, so much fun. So let's start with a warm up, okay? Whether a trip is for business or pleasure, us runners are always looking to get a run in on the go. So for our warm up question today, what is your favorite run you've taken while on the trip? Stephen, let's start with you.

Stephen Horan: Yeah, so I'm probably focused most of this around business travel because I do a lot of travel globally for business. And one of the most memorable trips that I have is I was able to go to Australia for work. So that was actually really fun. But while there, you always want to try to run. And one of the things I was able to find, and I didn't find it in advance. So I found it while I was there, was I was able to find a half marathon to be able to jump into. And it was So realize this is a lot long ago, right? So we're talking about like in 2020 or 2005. So, you didn't have GPS's, you didn't have all of these other kind of cool smartphones, you'd be able to kind of be able to do it. So I'm like pulling out maps, trying to figure out how to go do packet pickups, you know, how do I get to the start? You know, you don't have Ubers kind of running around. You know, I wasn't driving there because you're on the opposite side of the road. I mean, so just a lot of challenges, but it was just memorable to be able to jump in, be able to find something locally that I was there and kind of opened up my eyes to Australia just from a running aspect. So that was just most memorable for me.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah. It's like the amazing race by yourself.

Stephen Horan: Yeah, well, 2005 is what it feels like, know, smartphones for sure.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah. That's good. Wait, what do you do for work besides coach and do all the other things?

Stephen Horan: So, yeah, so I work full time for Corning. I was working on a fiber of the home project in Australia. So we were deploying fiber optics. So that was what we were doing there and got that opportunity to spend two weeks there and be able to do and race in that one weekend in between.

Carrie Tollefson: Awesome. I love it. Combining all the things in life. Okay, EJ, tell us about yours.

Elizabeth James: Well, I'm a little jealous of Stephen. I mean, Australia is still on my bucket list, so mine is not going to sound anywhere exotic compared to that. But yeah, one of my favorite places was actually on the Katy Trail State Park Trail, and this is in Missouri. So my husband and I were traveling from Texas to Illinois to go visit family. We had stopped in Missouri for the night and the next morning we were trying to figure out a place to run.

Stephen Horan: Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Me too!

Elizabeth James: and we came across this like rails to trails system and I was blown away. The whole thing is 240 miles along. Like obviously we did not run, but just a small portion of that. But yeah, it's a crushed limestone trail that like follows the Kansas, Missouri, Texas railroad or what was formerly the railroad. And it's like right along the Missouri river. It was just gorgeous. And yeah, I mean, Clearly you could run for miles and miles and I was like, man, I wish I had this as my long run every weekend. This is beautiful. So that's probably one of my absolute favorites in the middle of Missouri.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah. You know, I think it's so fun that you found something like that. mean, yes, obviously Australia sounds so glamorous, right? But I mean, there are some beautiful places to train right kind of in our own neighborhoods. And I think that's been my favorite thing about this whole professional runner type thing that I've been able to live for so long is like I've traveled the world and I mean, I can tell you all the great places I've been to, but really it's my memory goes to where I ran and like you, Steven, like I used to bring like a big camera with me like now. so nice we have our cell phones and we can use them for maps and use them for cameras but when I was racing I would bring my camera like a cannon and it was like a big chunky thing and I would stop and take pictures because as distance runners that's one of the perks is we get to actually like be a tourist on the run so I love that but for me one of my favorite runs is my dad named it called Skunk Hollow and it was just a section around a cornfield in this small little town that I grew up in in Dawson Minnesota town of 1,600 people and it was a mile you know each section so it's four miles well actually I think Scuncalo might have been a little bit shorter but anyway that brings me back to so many great memories and I think that's what the sport is all about it's the memories and it's just the conversations or being out there watching a cow graze across or whatever you know you remember those awesome things so from Australia to little Minnesota We've got it covered. But we want to hear from our audience too. So if you guys want to answer this question, come on over to all of RunDot social media accounts. We're curious to hear what your favorite run you've taken while on a trip is. Find us on our socials and let us know. All right, let's get to the main set. This is going to be fun today. I'm so excited to see how you all travel and run. So athletes listening to the Run Dot podcast likely have their training plan in mind when they take a trip. I know all of us are thinking about our run 24-7. So let's start with this question. How closely should we attempt to follow the training plan while in travel mode?

Stephen Horan: Okay. I mean, I'll go ahead and jump in. mean, you know, and again, I think, you know, we'll have to take the perspective of what are you traveling for? I do most of my travel for business. So most of my context is around the business aspect, but you know, I mean, you have to also realize that it doesn't have to be perfect. mean, travel in itself is stressful. I mean, you never know, but you know, run dot can really be your guide for you. Right? I mean, you have priority workouts. My recommendation is to try to hit some of those priority workouts, but there's also challenges and we'll go into some of those like, hey, can you find a place to do it safely? know, mean, running a treadmill and doing MAV shuttles is really hard for me, right? So, you know, I mean, you can't do everything, but realizing that what is the intent, right? What are you trying to do? You have to look at where you are in your cycle. You know, are you in development phase or are you in race prep phase? I mean, there's all these different aspects. I mean, an example, just quickly for me is like I was in race prep phase for an Ironman. I was stuck in China for three weeks. I'm having to do like five hour bike rides on stationary bikes. And so from that standpoint, you gotta adapt. And was it perfect? No. I mean, was I hitting all my zones? No, but I still did the intent of the overall workout. But it really is like making sure that you're balancing that aspect of it. Like what is the intent? Where are you adding your cycle? Can you do it safely? it indoors, outdoors? I mean, it's a lot of different things you have to take into consideration. But really what I try to say is like it doesn't have to be perfect. I try to say, hey, if you can get 80%, that's kind of the target, that would be awesome.

Carrie Tollefson: And adapting, I think is the big word that I heard you say. That's something that lot of athletes struggle with and that's like being coachable. You gotta be able to coach yourself when you're on the road. If you have a coach that's kind of overseeing things, be adaptable. How about you, EJ?

Elizabeth James: I love what Stephen said. I mean, you're really trying to strike that balance between maintaining your training routine. But then as we said, that keyword adapting, you're adapting to the constraints and the stresses of travel. I find travel kind of stressful. And so even if, you know, you're there and you feel like you can get in a run, like you have to take into account how much stress did it incur for you to get there. and are you off of your routine? Did you change time zones? Are you eating differently? Did you not sleep well because the hotel bed is just terrible? And so, I mean, being able to adapt and keep all of those things in mind is super important. I used to be such a stickler for like rigidly sticking to every detail of the plan when I was training. And I mean, sometimes that was to my detriment. It's not always realistic for us to stick so rigidly to the plan and And at times, like it's not beneficial. We need to take all of these things like in the full context and understand what is going to help us in the long term. The other thing that I just love that, know, Stephen mentioned is, you know, we're, we're also thinking about what the purpose of the travel was for. And, and I find with the athletes I coach, that is one of the biggest things that kind of hinges on like how strict are we going to be with the training plan? You know if it's for work, you probably still you know want to try to stick to that training plan a little bit if it's for fun if it's with family like we're probably gonna be a little bit more loose and one of the things that I found myself telling my coach athletes very recently is like don't miss the memories for your training plan if you're going on vacation with your family and you know the whole family is going to the beach or the whole family's going on a hike Like you don't want to miss those memories because you're like, I needed to get this 30 minute zone two run in. Like let's make some adjustments. Let's be realistic about like long term. Are you going to be sad two weeks from now that you missed the hike with your family because you were so strict about getting that aerobic run in? So yeah, lots of things. And I know we're going to dive into that a little more with the upcoming questions.

Stephen Horan: . .

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah, you know, and also I think if you are the travel planner, then we need to make sure that we plan a family workout or in a late morning sleep for someone, you know, like that might be your role. If you're really thinking about what am I going to do? Well, then you have to maybe plan that in. So that kind of leads to this next question. When one of your athletes has a trip coming up, is this something that you talk through before they go on their trip? Like what their training will be like, where they can maybe do it?

Stephen Horan: Okay.

Elizabeth James: Mm-hmm.

Carrie Tollefson: you know, what kind of season are they going and all those things. So let's talk about how you as coaches would talk to your athlete before they travel.

Stephen Horan: Yeah, I mean, I can go again. I mean, it's probably very similar. I I really try to spend the time. I meet currently every week with my coached athletes. And so we're always talking about the next week and anything that's coming up. mean, you within run dot, within try dot, you have the ability to put notes in and kind of track when somebody's traveling. So I ask all my athletes to tell me if you're doing something, if you're planning. you know, vacation. I agree 100 % with EJ in the sense of saying, hey, if you have that, let's take the time. I mean, you have very limited time with the family in general. And so take the time while you're traveling and spend it with your family while you're trying to do that. But taking those notes, being very purposeful and saying, hey, what do we need to do? Do we need to shift it around? EJ talked about like time zone changes, right? I mean, you lose a day, right? When you travel going over to Asia. You know, so when you, when you end up losing a day, you got to start shifting everything around. So I work very closely with my athletes shift that around, you know, to make sure we can fit their schedule, you know, and also from a, you know, from traveling standpoint, because of that, you know, you may have to say, Hey, let's bump everything down also. Right. Because time zone changes are a big challenge, you know, when you end up traveling and you can't always eat well, you know, it's always. It's hard sometimes and you can't control it. So I really do spend the time with my athletes, try to talk through that with them, especially also if it's extended, it becomes even more of an important discussion. mean, I know there's some different athletes that are going out of town for, you know, are traveling for two, three weeks at a time. And that makes it even harder, right? From a planning aspect to say, hey, what can I do? How do we go and adapt? As we've talked about earlier. to what we're physically doing. So again, yes, spend the time. I really spend the time coaching through that and trying to help the athlete to think through everything and say, hey, did you think about this? Hey, don't forget your water bottle. Don't, you know, mean, little things like that. You got to make sure you remember and, you know, adapting to what is going on with the schedules, what you're doing with travel, where you're going. All of that becomes very important.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah, and some athletes just need their coach if they do have a coach besides the app to just tell them exactly or to remind them like, no, this is what we're going to do. You know, I, kind of, often joke that when I was running a little bit more serious, I had my hand held a lot with my coaches or, you know, an agent or whoever it was. Like I had people sort of like in my ear all the time. And now that I, I don't necessarily have that. Sometimes it's hard to stay on the plan or You know, you kind of need that. So I think that that's important too, is that they have you guys in their ear saying, it's okay to take today off or if you have to switch, we'll switch. The program will switch for you. But Elizabeth, yeah, what do you do? Are you like, no, we're going to do this before you travel, like lay it all out there for them? Or are you kind of on, you know, a text with your athletes where they could say maybe, I'm going to Central Park, but I didn't, you know, I didn't get my workout in. What do you do?

Stephen Horan: you

Elizabeth James: Yeah, when one of my coach athletes has a trip coming up, we make it a point to talk through all of that beforehand. I mean, as we've mentioned, traveling can disrupt routines. So it's really nice to have a plan in place going into it that fits both the travel schedule, their current phase in the training season. You know, if they're further out from a race event and it's a short trip, we might just focus on like maintaining a little bit of consistency while they're there. know, two, three day conference, maybe we can fit one or two aerobic runs in, great, we come back, we're back on the plan. But you know, if they are on an extended trip, I mean, Stephen mentioned there's, there's a number of athletes that will travel internationally for weeks at a time for work. And you know, if they are frequently traveling and for long periods of time, and they are also preparing for a race, then then we do get very detailed about know, what sessions do we need to prioritize? What sessions do we have a little bit more flexibility with? And then how does that fit with their overall travel schedule? I mean, I have one of my athletes that frequently travels for work and he attends a bunch of conferences. And one of the things that he'll do is he will send me the conference schedule. And so he's like, here's the conference schedule. Here are my travel dates. You know the training plan. How does this all fit together? Because I don't know how we're gonna make this happen.

Stephen Horan: Okay.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah.

Elizabeth James: And honestly, I love it. It's like a whole big puzzle. It's like, okay, you're traveling how many time zones different? Like, this are the conference days. Here's where you've got little pockets of time. And it doesn't always work out perfectly once he's there, but it at least gives us a great plan A. And then we're continually like texting or in contact as they're traveling as well, just to really figure out. How did travel go? Did you sleep okay on the plane? Do you feel like you can get that first session in when you're there? Do we need to bump things around? I think ultimately this comes back to just a lot of open communication between the athlete and the coach and for athletes that do have the coach. This is a great way to utilize that coaching relationship and have them help you manage it. But I know not all athletes have a coach. And so I think just keeping these tips in mind. that a coach would do can help athletes without a coach to think about like, okay, if I go in with a plan, I at least have this outline of what could happen and then I might just need to adjust a little bit from there.

Carrie Tollefson: I have a new business idea. We just need someone to back it, okay? But I've always wanted to be what I call a running concierge, where I basically tell people how to live and train. I guess that's a coach. But...

Stephen Horan: Okay.

Elizabeth James: Thanks.

Carrie Tollefson: I think what you're doing EJ is something that I've dreamed of. Like people just give me their schedule and they're like tell me how to logistically live my life so I could get my runs in and make a home cooked meal or you know do all the things. So yeah if anyone's out there listening that is you know an entrepreneur and wants to a new business hit EJ and I up. We will figure this out. So when you're traveling and it's like the first time you're

Stephen Horan: Okay.

Elizabeth James: Love it. Yes.

Carrie Tollefson: going to a certain spot, where to train. That's always like, I am not good with like trail, you know, finding trails. I'm not good with figuring out where the tracks are. usually I just want to go and find an open road and I'll be good. Right. But sometimes you just don't know where those are or what, when to make the decision of going on a treadmill rather than going out. You know, you not know the area. Is it safe? Is it going to be dark? All those things. So how do you do that with your athletes? Like tell them where to train.

Stephen Horan: Yeah, I mean, this is again, I think it's individual like you just said, hey, I'm not good at finding it. I mean, I, I attempt to do research in advance. I'll use a real example last year I was in Taiwan and I'm like, man, I got a speed workout. Actually. I had a time trial was supposed to do that day, that week while I was there. And I'm like, where am I going to go do a time trial? I hate doing them on treadmills, but you know, you got to do a little bit of research. And I, that one, I was able to high school track in Taiwan, right, to be able to go and run. I found out, I found somebody else that happened to work with me that was a runner also, and he's like, hey, well, you can go do this. They open at this time, you know, because I can reach the counties. And so it was a little bit harder, but I was able to go and to be able to go do that. I mean, I would recommend, I mean, you if you're not playing with CHAT GPT, right, I mean, it's a perfect thing just to say, hey, I'm traveling here, this is where I'm staying. it will start recommending. it perfect? No, but you can go and look at options to be able to do that. I mean, I also kind of look for, because sometimes I'm having to go to a hotel where my work is sending me and it maybe doesn't even have a treadmill or they open at 8 a.m., right? And I work out before. I also, you know, as in the U.S., as a member of the YMCA, I research where all the YMCA's are. So it gives me a lot more options. specifically as a triathlete swimming and even trying to get a better stationary bite sometimes than recumbent. But you know, looking at all of those options, I mean, if you're a 24 seven fitness person, you can do the same thing, right? You can go to any of those. There's a lot of those. It's a little bit harder overseas, but you know, try to do the research. Look at your hotel. You know, what do they have available? If you have a choice. You can make that decision, hey, go to this hotel versus the other because they have a 24-7 gym versus one that you can't do it. That you can't get into until eight. So looking at those things, I think are really important. I do also look at, I mean, same example as Taiwan. I found that school, found there was a track there by looking at the maps. I also found a little park that I could go in. different in Asia than in the US, but they end up having a lot of the elderly folks go and walk all the time. Right? And it's just, and that was an opportunity that I was able to go out there. It was safe because I knew other people were going to be out there looking at all those other aspects. I mean, you hit the nail though. mean, sometimes you can't find parks, you can't find schools. And so even like using satellite views of maps can show you where the sidewalks are at least. And so that becomes another option to look because you do need to be safe, right? I mean, any place that you're going, trying to do that. mean, keep maps off of Strava. You can go on Strava anywhere in the world and just look and see and they will plot where you are and they will show you different run routes that people have done. So that at least shows you where you can go and run. I happened to be in California and I was able to go down to the war And so that was like a great opportunity for me to do that. Did something similar in Japan, right? So I was able to find, you know, exactly there was a big memorial Barton area and they had a big, big loop around it, right? And so I think it's just continuing to look, but you got to do it in advance. It's harder when you get there because the stress of traveling is always there. The other, maybe other quick is I've had Go to, if you're in a new hotel, ask the front desk. There are more and more hotels that actually have little printouts that they'll give you for running rooms. Sometimes, you know, or, you know, even going to local running stores, right? And so, I mean, that's actually how I found Fleet Feet before we opened up one was running with a running group at a local running store, right? So I don't know, there's a lot of different options and you just gotta be open-minded to say, hey, what do you wanna go do? Do you want to be with groups? Do you want to be in a park? I think it's just there, it's just doing the research.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah, and I think just to piggyback on your Ask the Front Desk, if you stay at Westin's, they sometimes have, I think they still have that run program where they give New Balance shoes and an outfit if you forgot your running shoes. Like how cool is that? So, you know, just hit them up. They might not have a pair of running shoes for you. You know, it's hard sometimes to ask for some toothpaste, but you never know. So the front desk definitely is a good tool to have. How about you, EJ?

Stephen Horan: Thank I'm

Elizabeth James: Well, I wish I was as good at looking at maps as Stephen. I'll be honest. All my friends and my family will know I am terrible with directions. You get me outside of my neighborhood and I will get lost. It doesn't matter if I've done the running route. Yeah, I mean, true. They sometimes turn a little longer than, you know, the section is prescribed, but it's beautiful. So no, I mean, if you're great with maps,

Carrie Tollefson: I know! Me too! You It's sort of the best thing to do though on a run. It sort of is. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yep.

Stephen Horan: Okay.

Elizabeth James: utilize all of that. I'm terrible with maps. I will look at it ahead of time and I will still get lost. I will not know where I'm going. And so one of the things that I've really utilized is looking up local running clubs because not only can they provide routes, but I'll be like, hey, when are your runs? Because I need like, I need that personal tour guide. Can I jump into one of your sessions? And that has been absolutely fantastic just to hook up with a local running community and do that. And I'm gonna put a big plug in here too, our RunDot community is fantastic. I mean, if you just use the social connections that we have through everybody else that's using run.to train, there's a good likelihood that you can not only meet up with your personal guide for whatever city you're going to, but maybe if they can't run with you, they can at least provide a safe route. And so I would highly recommend just reaching out and saying like, hey, I'm going here for work. Hey, I'm going here for vacation. Who lives nearby? Who can offer a route? Like, are there any running groups that I can be a part of? And I think that, you know, you'll be surprised with how accommodating people will be either with routes or a run partner. I mean, talk about what a great way to get to know somebody like. as you're traveling. So I would highly recommend that, especially if you're like me and will get lost without a little bit of a guide.

Carrie Tollefson: So tell us a little bit about, yeah, Stephen, go ahead. And then I want to kind of piggyback on that.

Stephen Horan: I don't know. Yeah, I think there's some new stuff about that can get rolled out right with the app that may even be even more beneficial to kind of create those linkages. So keep your eyes open for some of that stuff too. I think that's.

Elizabeth James: Yes, yeah, that social connection coming.

Carrie Tollefson: new stuff's coming. So if right now though you are saying you reach out to people on the social aspect of run. How do they do that?

Stephen Horan: Yeah.

Elizabeth James: With the like run up Facebook community and you know, also have that yeah, we have you know some Facebook opportunities also within circle So the run community within that circle platform. There's I mean a lot of connections and Community forums that are happening there right now And so yeah, if you're not connected on that like maybe we can drop that into the show notes or something like definitely get connected It's not only great to talk about your training, what races are coming up, who else is doing that race, but then yeah, the day-to-day training, travel, it's just gonna be a great resource.

Stephen Horan: Yeah, and actually you can connect to that through your app, right? So there is a connection in the app on your phone to be able to connect to the circle group and to get access to it. So that's a perfect opportunity and to do that. And I'll tell you, I mean, I stay in contact

Carrie Tollefson: Awesome.

Elizabeth James: Yeah

Stephen Horan: folks and I didn't even think about it in the response but it is like if you're going to splice snoot reach out and you may be able to have somebody to even train with you know just for a period of

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah. Yeah, I mean how fun would it be to like do that every trip find a new run dot friend, you know, we've talked a little bit about this but one of the questions that we had was, you know, when you're going to a new place, okay, obviously we got to figure out where we're going to train but we don't always know about what the food options are going to look like or what the weather could do all of that stuff. So are you planning for that beforehand or are you sort of just winging it? I mean, I know that I

Stephen Horan: Ha ha.

Elizabeth James: Mm-hmm.

Carrie Tollefson: used to travel especially when I would go over to Asia I loved the food over there but they did serve a lot of like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches things like that so I would or if I was in Russia we actually raced quite a bit they don't race there as much anymore but we used to race over there or like we were in Hungary like we were in all kinds of different places where I just didn't know what the food would taste like so I would bring just like squeezable peanut butter and squeezable jelly and some bagels and have them in my carry-on or in my check bag I guess just to be safe like do you guys recommend that for your athletes?

Elizabeth James: I'll jump in on this one first. Yeah. I mean, when traveling to a new place, there's definitely those key things that I like to scout out ahead of time just to avoid the surprises, stay as prepared as possible. And first thing is checking the weather forecast. I may not be as good with maps, but I know how to check the weather forecast. I feel like I can prepare for the weather, know, the right gear, at least packing a number of layers. And then just kind of getting an idea of the terrain as well. Now, most of the time that's based off of

Stephen Horan: it. .

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah.

Elizabeth James: like a recommendation from somebody local, but just kind of getting a sense of, you know, is this hilly area, is this a flat area? One of the things that's super helpful for me is plugging in the location that I'm going to be traveling into the RunDot app. And so I can also get a sense, and this has caught me off guard before, so now I know better, like if I'm going to a place with high altitude. And so like traveling to Colorado or like around Tahoe, it's like, gosh. Okay, let's keep in mind that my pacing is going to be a little bit different here because I'm at altitude and I am not acclimated to that. And then yes, nutrition. That's a huge thing. I feel like always like half of my checked bag is food. So I always get like slightly embarrassed if my like bag has to be checked or something at the checkout counter and they're like looking at things and it is, it's so much food. I have it in my carry on, I have it in my checked bag.

Stephen Horan: Okay.

Carrie Tollefson: You

Elizabeth James: Just because I'm kind of picky and so I love trying new foods when I'm there But in terms of what I need when I'm training. Yeah, like bread peanut butter Applesauce is great. I packed all of like my electrolytes my gels and that can make a big difference for me It's just kind of a comfort thing as well that I know that I'm at least gonna be able to fuel my workouts

Stephen Horan: Okay. Okay.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah, our metabolisms are fast, so you know, when you're on the airplane and you don't have something, or those sun chips just don't quite cut it every single time, you gotta have stuff with you. How about you, Stephen?

Elizabeth James: Yes.

Stephen Horan: Yeah, I'm just going to flip it because I think I just traveled, saw EJ down at Little Elm this past week and I can't end for work in advance, right? But I was actually getting ready and this is the discussion, where are you at in the phase of training? You may need to be taking on more food than you typically would do that would just be going out to a local restaurant. And again, you have to look at that holistically, but I'm very similar to EJ in the sense of, you know, I'll try to pack stuff that I know I can eat that I can easily get to. I mean, one of the challenges with traveling overseas is like, you don't know when you're waking up at times, right? I mean, you're waking up at 3 a.m. and you're not going to go find a restaurant open, right? So I need to have those extra bars or something to eat, especially before I go and get ready to work out or something a little bit more. And so, yes, I try to at least plan. I do similar to you, Kerry, like I try to eat some of local food, but you need to make sure you can. I mean, and I'm just gonna pick on Korea, like kimchi. Some people can't eat kimchi, right? They just can't manage something like that. And so, okay, what are you going to eat? What is it going to look like? Well, every meal, I shouldn't say every, you can go to some restaurants, but like most meals, especially when a US person travels over to Asia, They want to take you to like a formal Asian restaurant, right? And so every single time you sit down, you're having kimchi or you're having raw fish or you're doing things like that. So you need to just balance that and make sure you're aware and then plan in advance. know, it's probably more than just a carry on of food, right? But you don't have it in truly, you know, food packaged so you can kind of bring it over there and at least get through. But I would also just point out, I mean, most especially traveling wise and then when you just use overseas in Asia for most Americans, right? It's pretty different. so, most, you know, kind of five star hotels are very kind of they have international cuisines a lot of times and especially breakfast becomes one of those. And I really load up on the breakfast because they typically still have the bread. They're having the eggs. They're having that and they have or even raw fish or whatever. And so it just gives you an opportunity. And I do try to make sure I'm getting my bananas and I'm doing things like that. And I'll take a little bit extra out from that in that morning. So I have it for the rest of the day also. So again, just some other thoughts.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah. It's so fun to try all the different foods, but you're right, like there it is never fun to be tired, which most of the time you are when you're traveling and hungry. It is not cool to be hungry. So just pack those extra snacks or find, know, if you're most often times you can find grocery stores and things like that, but it is the time difference sometimes where our bodies are off schedule. So you have to make sure you have those middle of the night snacks that you know you wake up. up at 3 a.m. can't go back to sleep and you're ravenous. So next question is once you have some great location sorted the next challenge is finding the best time as we're kind of talking about this. This is hard especially when you're tired or your sleep patterns all off the normal routine is not normal at all. So how do you advise your athletes to figure out the right time to go for their training?

Stephen Horan: Yes. Yeah, I'll give maybe my experiences and I'm going to use international travel because I think it's the harder of it, right? When you're doing massive time zone jumps and the six hour time zone jumps are really the hardest, right? Because you're not fully flipping and you know, if you're going backwards or forwards, depending on what direction you're going. But you know, one of the things that is said with helping with sleeping is staying on a routine, right? If you can get back to your routine, I find exercising helps that. So if you're an early morning person, getting out there, getting back on your routine, it will help your clock flip quicker. And I think we just did a call on sleeping the other day. so I think trying to do that, getting back into that routine as fast as you can, can help. Now, it doesn't always work because you may have different things that you have to attend, but I force myself. have to get up super, super early the next day and not get a lot of sleep. I try to get myself onto my routine. I'm an early person, so it's a little easier. So I can jump that in before I'm actually having to go work. Now, if you're having to work and you're always doing everything at 2, you may not, or 2 p.m., you may not be able to get to do that. But if you're in an early, I recommend try to jump on that as soon as possible. And I tell my athletes the same thing. It is, Try to create a routine because that routine will help everything else with the sleep patterns and all that, especially if you're doing international travel and times and differences.

Carrie Tollefson: Mm-hmm. EJ, how about you?

Elizabeth James: That's such great advice, Stephen. And I think one of the things that I found too is that even if athletes aren't typically like an early morning training person, it usually allows for the best consistency while they're traveling if they get up and train in the morning. That's just the protected time. And it seems like even athletes that would usually train in the evening if they're traveling for a work conference, I mean, they're exhausted after the work conference and It's kind of like a rule of thumb where it's like you get done with the conference and you've got about 15 minutes before the group's going to dinner. Like you're not gonna have enough time to get your workout in there too. And so even if you're not like an early morning workout person, I really encourage my athletes to try to do it in the morning when that time is still open, it's protected. And yeah, using that as kind of like a key for the body to set that circadian rhythm with whatever time zone you're in.

Carrie Tollefson: I know.

Stephen Horan: .

Elizabeth James: has been super helpful too. There's just something about getting up, seeing the sunlight, getting the exercise in that's gonna help jump start that adaptation and get you on that new time zone routine. And I think that that has been great. Now, I mean, if you're traveling for fun and you've got the flexibility and you can sleep in and eat breakfast and lounge at the beach and do an afternoon stroll, fantastic.

Stephen Horan: Okay.

Carrie Tollefson: Mm-hmm.

Elizabeth James: But I think more often than not, I encourage athletes to get it up. get it done in the morning, whether that's for business or for family, because then you've got the rest of the day open. You're not stressed about what else is going to come up.

Carrie Tollefson: I agree. mean, the only time that that is really hard is if you are trying to network late at night, which I almost think after 9 p.m. is the networking really happening anyway. like and also

Elizabeth James: you

Stephen Horan: No. No.

Carrie Tollefson: people are going to just kind of think you're a rock star for saying, you know what, I'm to get up early and get my workout in. So I'm to head to bed early. Like that's OK. You're a goal driven people. Right. But also with family like my husband and his family, I love them all so much, but they love to

Elizabeth James: Mm-hmm.

Stephen Horan: you

Carrie Tollefson: play card games or board games until the wee hours and I am like no I can't first of all I can't my body just cannot and second of all they know I'm a happier person because I want to get up and run and I like doing that so they don't really bother me after 9 p.m. if I'm done I'm done and so I think too like that's okay it's a good excuse it's almost like when you have babies when you have to you have to go take a nap with them, it's a good excuse. So use your excuses and just own them.

Stephen Horan: One of the other things, I EJ talked about conferences. I try to recruit people at conferences to go work out in the mornings, right? So it most forces them to be able to go do that, right? So bring people along. mean, it actually, it makes it fun, right? You're bringing other groups there, going out for a little run. know, I mean, you know, not everybody can do that, but getting them out there also kind of helps that so you can get that done and get it scheduled in. So just maybe another small trick with you know, with work. If you're doing it as a conference or you're doing group stuff with work, it vigilantes a little bit harder, but with groups it makes it something you can do.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah. Okay, let's talk equipment. We've kind of touched on nutrition a little bit, but what do we bring when we're racing and traveling, working and traveling, or do we leave it at home when we're going for a trip that's just for pleasure? What do you guys talk to your athletes about for equipment?

Elizabeth James: let steven go first on this one because i know he's got a rule that is like gold and i don't want to steal his thunder so steven's golden rule here we go

Carrie Tollefson: Steven's Golden Rule!

Stephen Horan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The carry, the carry. All right. If it's something you don't want to lose, carry it on. Right. I it's hard sometimes, especially, you know, as a triathlete, it's harder to bring everything that you can on. But as a runner, I mean, I bring, I always carry my shoes on. I carry at least one pair of shorts and one shirt. Now, granted, I haven't been staying at Weston, so I like that idea. Maybe I can get some booze, but I try to carry the major things on. I I always carry my own hydration also, so I use noon or pH precision hydration, and so they're effervescent, so I keep those in my carry-on bag anyway. I actually, my computer bag, so it just makes it even easier. But carry-on, I mean, keep a little kit together. of the basic necessities. Like, I mean, I have my garment in there. I keep my stride pad in there. You know, I keep, you know, my heart rate monitor in there. I also always carry a headlamp, right, is one that I always have to be able to have it. So you can, don't know how dark it is. I mean, some countries don't have the street lights always. And so having something like that, just to be safe. And, you know, always, I always keep my shoes handy. So.

Carrie Tollefson: So good. Yeah, I love that. EJ, you have any others?

Elizabeth James: Yeah, I knew Stephen had to go first. I totally agree with the carry on, but I didn't want to steal his thunder. This is something actually, so I have this little like running kit basically, even in my car, because I always just want to be prepared. Like if I, you know, I'm running late for something and I'm able to get a run in or whatever. And so it makes it super easy for me. I've already got basically that little bag ready to go. It fits right in the carry on.

Stephen Horan: Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Mm-hmm.

Elizabeth James: love the recommendation of the headlamp. That I always have because again, you don't know what the light conditions are going to be. The other thing that I will add there because I know from experience is sunscreen. Whether it's a warm location or higher altitude, I've unfortunately been in that situation where I felt like I had everything ready for the run and did except I came back quite the lobster color. So we're going to add sunscreen. that little carry-on bag as well.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah, I love that. mean the headlamp is so good for running but also if you have people in your room and you have to study or prep for the next day, you know that allows them to sleep and you to still work but I do agree one of my tips is that and I learned this from my dad but if you have an outfit that's getting a little bit you know old or stinky or whatever that you are okay with bringing I put that in my carry-on and then I'll leave it at the hotel along with like a pair of shoes that maybe only has three or four more runs in it. I will bring those with me too and then leave that at the hotel as well. you know making sure that the equipment you bring doesn't always have to be the most up-to-date because sometimes you don't want to be traveling with stinky clothes back or you don't want to travel with shoes that are you know on their way out. So those are items that sometimes I will just spring on a quick trip and just not feel so bad leaving them. in hotel room or donating them somehow. I love all this. This is so fun. I want to go on a trip. You know, I was thinking about this. So Stephen, you're

Stephen Horan: you

Elizabeth James: Yeah, feel like we need to go on a trip just to test out all of these features. If there's anything we missed, yeah.

Stephen Horan: Hahaha!

Carrie Tollefson: Yes, and I travel like every week, but I still think it's fun to try to coordinate it all. Steven, I was thinking it was funny how you were talking about going overseas and having the time change be hard on you. But you know what? The other day I was in Atlanta and I'm from the Midwest. I live on Central time, but then I was on East Coast time for a couple days for an event. And then I went to West Coast time for another three days. staying right here in the States isn't always easy. I mean, I was all over the place trying to and I got home to this and also it was daylight savings so then I was such a mess and I feel like I've been overseas you know I still am like just starting to get my my sleep pattern back it's tough it's really tough yeah

Stephen Horan: Yeah, I in the US, I mean, like I traveled to Texas, I'm on the East Coast and I traveled to Texas last week and I attempt to sort of stay on my current schedule, right? Not in the whole hour, you know, so I'm not upsetting everything, but it is a little bit harder. Like, I mean, I typically am running at 430. So 330 is a little early sometimes to be honest. So, but you know, thinking. But you know, it's just different ways to manage through it, but it is, it is hard, just all travel. Get older, make it harder, right?

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Elizabeth James: Now that app name is totally escaping me right now. I'll have to find what it is. But one of the things that I have a lot of my athletes do is actually use an app if they are going to be traveling, especially for a race and use that to help like adjust their sleep patterns a little bit ahead of time. And that makes the time zone change so much easier. And so, you know, it's just small increments that they're adjusting. Now, obviously, if you're traveling for a vacation, a one-off, maybe not that big of a deal. If you're traveling all the time for work, it might be tricky to manage all of that. But then again, maybe you're the person that really needs that app to manage all those time zone changes. I'm sure there's a number of apps out there, but yeah, let's just put that out there as a recommendation too. I think there's such great resources out there that can help a little bit with that time zone travel and sleep changes.

Stephen Horan: . Thank

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah. Yeah, check for an app like that. Again, this is why we need running concierge. Okay, so some trips are more conducive to training than others, but if an athlete needs you to help them prioritize certain workouts.

Stephen Horan: Yeah.

Elizabeth James: Yes!

Carrie Tollefson: How do you do that? Or have you tell them how to cut back? Or even above that, like what does run.do when the app sees that you haven't quite been getting in what you're supposed to get in?

Elizabeth James: Yeah, this is awesome. I'd like a number of questions folded into this. I think that's okay. It's like, ooh, let's talk about this and this. That's so much good stuff. Yeah, when travel limits the number of workouts that you can get in, I would say that it's really important to prioritize the quality over the quantity. And so I always recommend focusing on the key sessions. I mean, that's really where you're gonna maximize your fitness. You're gonna maintain the training stimulus. without requiring as much time. So yeah, if you can't get in everything, let's look at those key sessions. And what's great about RunDot is you can look at the execution points that are distributed throughout the week, and that will easily tell you which of those workouts you should prioritize. So the ones that have the most execution points, let's try to get those in. Okay, if they don't have as many execution points, if that's an aerobic run, that's just 30 minutes. That's not gonna be worth like as much. And so let's just prioritize those higher execution point workouts. And that's really gonna help you determine what should be done. I really think that, you know, this is about maintaining the core elements of the training plan throughout the week, rather than just trying to squeeze in every workout. And, you know, if you're able to at least maintain a little bit of consistency, get in some of those higher intensity sessions, when get back from the travel, you're gonna be able to pick up like right where you're left off. You're not gonna feel like you're behind or that you've missed more because you've gotten that great training stimulus in.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah. Steven, what do you have to say?

Stephen Horan: Yeah, mean, she hit it exact. I mean, there are times though, I use map shuttles because they're hard to be able to go do. And can you find a place to be able to go do it? Because that's going to be high XP points for sure. But you may not be able to do them. we'll go in there. I consistency is probably even more important, right? So trying to do something is better than nothing. So yes, if you can prioritize the higher XP points. That is exactly what you wanna do. Now you also ask the question, like what happens if you can't? So let's say you end up going and all you can do is zoom to heart rate and you can only do 20 minutes because of your schedule, right? RunDot is going, the AI is going to start adjusting, right? So it measures all of that stress throughout and it will try to now build you from that stress. Now, The thing you shouldn't be stressing about independently is like, you're not going to lose fitness, right? I mean, if you ended up missing three days, it's okay. You're not going to lose it. Yes, we're A-type personalities, but we don't want to miss it, but it is okay. It actually may even be better for you to get some of that recovery from the travel, from all the other stresses that aren't being measured and run-not, know, to be able to go and manage that. So. I mean, I think balance, if you can prioritize exactly as EJ stated, yes, do that. If you can't, also be comfortable with just doing 20 minutes or doing something to be able to keep that of the heart going, right? Even if it's just all zone two. So, I mean, I think it's just, you gotta have that ability to adjust, right? And being agile a little bit to be able to do that also.

Carrie Tollefson: Do you know my secret is the 20 minute run. I just I only had 20 minutes this morning and I went out and hammered I was so I was definitely not in the right zone, but I was going for it and I only had 20 minutes. I did it, but I swear. I mean I feel like if anyone has the opportunity to just move their body for 20 minutes, they will be better for it and they will feel better. So like don't always think that it because you can't get in that 60 minute run or that 50 minute run or the hour and 30 minute run that 20 minutes isn't worth it. It's worth it. Just go get a And I remember Dan O'Brien the Olympic gold medalist from the decathlon back in the 80s 90s 96 I think Anyway, he would say to me because we do some commentary together. He'd say Carrie I just need to go get my sweat on I got to go clear my brain get my sweat on and you know He would come back in a 15 20 minutes even sometimes, but he just needed to get that adrenaline rush So, you know, don't forget that like moving your body just for a little bit goes a long ways Speaking of that though, is it okay just to blow it off? Like is it okay to just be like I have been walking all over this city and I'm exhausted. I don't want to go for my run or you know I'm just having fun eating all of the fried food and I feel like crap but I'm having a blast on this boardwalk in Oceanside wherever it is. Like is do you guys as coaches get mad at the athletes or are like no go live a little?

Stephen Horan: Thank

Elizabeth James: I would definitely wouldn't get mad. mean, there are certainly times and places where like it's actually smarter to take a break from training. You know, it might be better than trying to fit everything in and risking like burnout. I mean, if you're just exhausted from training, like major life events like family vacations, holidays or really demanding work trips can come with a lot of stress, disrupted

Stephen Horan: Okay. Okay.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah.

Elizabeth James: routines. limited time, sometimes the best choice for your overall well-being is to pause your training. And whether that's because things are stressful and not going well or things are fantastic and awesome and you don't want to miss out on what the whole rest of the family is doing. I mean, you've got both ends of it there and both are legitimate reasons to not train. I mean, I put, you know, a lot of trust in my athletes and how they feel.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah.

Stephen Horan: Okay.

Elizabeth James: as well. Like, yes, I am there to guide them and to be a sounding board and to offer recommendations, but ultimately, like, it comes down to how they're feeling. And if they're like, I just couldn't do it, I was exhausted, or you know what, today, I didn't want to do it. Okay, that's fine. Like, and usually it's a short period of time. And then we can talk about what that looks like getting back into training depending on how long the break was. One of the things that, I mean, Steven said in that last response that I think is golden, that a lot of athletes should hang onto is like taking time off in situations like that doesn't mean losing all your fitness. It's more often than not giving your body and mind a chance to recover and reset, you know, and, you're not going to like come back after four or five days or even a week, even a week and a half and be like, I'm so out of shape. No, granted, you know, that first run back, might like mentally be thinking that. I promise you haven't like it's still there. Yeah, I think you know, there are times where not stressing about the structured workouts, not stressing about like any training can really just allow you to engage with other important moments in your life. I mean, I think we all love running. But I can guarantee you there's been times that all three of us have taken a break from it. And it's been okay. And just think about the big picture.

Stephen Horan: Okay. Okay.

Carrie Tollefson: Yes.

Elizabeth James: Think of it as like a necessary part of like your overall running journey, not a setback. Like yeah, you took a step back for a temporary period of time, but it's not a setback. Like you are gonna be fine coming back. There's plenty of other runs in the future.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I totally agree and I always think like Missing something is okay like missing not missing it like in the physical way But actually like emotionally missing the sport is good for us And I don't know if we I don't know if we do that as often as we should have ebbs and flows in training and sometimes a forced Break over a vacation is the perfect time to do it. How about you Stephen?

Elizabeth James: Mm-hmm.

Stephen Horan: Yeah, I mean, EJ said it very well. I mean, I'll reiterate. mean, you can't just continue doing that, right? And she said about feel, I mean, that's part of the thing that we as coaches is making sure it's not just a laziness feel, right? Really, you know, saying, Hey, is it really something that is a recovery aspect? it, know, from the mental side or from the physical side? But, know, you do want to attempt to try to keep something. But I mean, missing a few days because of extensive, you know, hours with family, you know, maybe you're at a wedding, you know, I mean, these are events that will never come back. And so taking the time there, but also be purposeful. Like what is that come back? and making sure that is planned and like, hey, what is that coming there? I mean, you jokingly said, hey, just go eat all your, you didn't say bonbons, but like eating all the bonbons you want, right? I mean, those are maybe where you wanna kind of like, okay, if I know I can and you have a race coming up or something, you may say, hey, let me maybe kind of reevaluate just maybe all of my eating if I can't get the workouts in, but just something to kind of think through, but it is okay, right? And I think that. You gotta tell yourself that and it's hard, I'll be honest, right? I mean, it's always even hard for myself to be able to say, yes, it's okay not to work out. I have to give myself that permission, but you gotta do it.

Carrie Tollefson: Mm-hmm. Yep. And speaking of bonbons, mean you can have, maybe you don't have 12, but you could have like, know, some, just cut back a little bit, whatever. Do you ever recommend to your athletes to just leave their shoes at home? I mean, I remember Kara Goucher and Adam Goucher, those two are Olympic. runners and they would go on a vacation every year during their heavy training and racing times and actually leave their running shoes at home so they didn't run. They didn't have the temptation. They were supposed to just go and get away from it. And I thought that was brilliant because I love the run and if I have my shoes, I'm probably gonna just sneak out even if I'm supposed to take the week off. So do you guys ever say, just don't? Like I'm telling you to not run.

Stephen Horan: Yeah, I mean, think there's times, you know, number one, at the end of a season, right, when you're going through the cycle of the season, it's perfect to be able to go do that, really giving yourself that recovery, both mentally and physically. The other thing is, I mean, as a coach, you know, and I think even as self-coast athletes, you need to make sure like, okay, am I really overextending? Right. And there's data that's in RunDot that you can go and look at, you can kind of research, but you can look at, am I really overextending? And if you see yourself overextending, truly taking that time off, as EJ stated, is something that is really maybe the best thing for you.

Carrie Tollefson: Yep, I love that. EJ, anything else on that?

Elizabeth James: Well, I'm just like, hmm, now I've got a new idea. Like I've athletes, know, don't bring your watch. Like I don't want to see any Garmin data from this week, but now I'm like, we're going to take this to the next level and be like, no shoes allowed. You can't bring your running shoes.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah. Yeah. I know it's kind of like, I would think that would be really hard because I love to run on vacation.

Elizabeth James: I know, I'm like, man, is that more stressful or is that more like, I don't know. I'm gonna give that one some more thought, but I feel like I got another little like tip in my coaching toolbox now. Like, we're going another level, not just no garment, but hey, no shoes. you know what I'm saying. Yes, yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah Yeah. Yeah, I mean you could still do yoga, you could still get in the pool and do a

Stephen Horan: I go to the police and then...

Carrie Tollefson: pool run, like there's other options. Just saying.

Stephen Horan: That's what I

Elizabeth James: Mm-hmm.

Carrie Tollefson: Well, let's get to our cool down question. I'm super excited for this one because I think it's a really good one and we constantly are thinking about our what we're wearing and how to keep them fresh. Our feet or our shoes on our feet fresh. So Tyler wrote in and he said, don't have fancy carbon race shoes. I prefer to keep it simple and train and race in the same shoes. I'm the same Tyler and I replace them regularly. I have a race coming up that has an expo in a few days of and a few days of events leading up to the actual race. Is it worth packing a second shoe to wear around all of the events to stay off my main shoes before the race or does it do no harm to pack the one pair and wear them everywhere including on race day? So what do you guys think pack one pair and wear them everywhere or have a walk around shoe and a race shoe?

Elizabeth James: I know for me, like when I have a shoe that I love and especially if it's on sale, I will buy like three or four pairs. And so it's very typical that I will wear the same brand of shoe, the same model of shoe, like as my kick it around and my running shoe. So it might be like a pair that looks identical. But one of the things that I found super beneficial is like

Stephen Horan: and

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah.

Elizabeth James: If I've got, you know, those two pairs of it or three pairs of it, basically when that shoe is worn out from running, it becomes my walk around shoe. And so I still have that shoe, but it's now like they almost go from like, OK, this is my running shoe. Now it's my walk around shoe. Now it's my go run errands at the grocery store. And then it becomes like lawn care. So the shoe gets like a lot of life. but I know exactly like what phase of that shoe it's in. So I definitely recommend like, yeah, you need a different pair of shoes to walk around in the expo than you're gonna race in. Maybe it's just the pair that you've been wearing for the last couple months. Now that's your walk around shoe and you get refreshed for race day.

Stephen Horan: Okay. Yep.

Carrie Tollefson: Yep, that's the shoe that I might leave in the hotel room. The one that's getting close to, I'd say getting close to lawn care actually. I wear my shoes a lot and I also wash my shoes. People think that's so crazy, but I like a clean pair of shoes that I wear and I will just put them in the wash on gentle cycle and then I let them air out and I know that not everyone says they should do that, but I have been a runner for I don't even know how many years and since I was 12 years old and we've always washed my shoes and they've been fine so I'm just telling you don't have to walk around in muddy gross shoes you can have them look halfway decent if they're really worn.